Martial arts and the undead

[Krensky]

The Auld Grump, tar pits, industrial accidents, the Boston Molasses Disaster... (if anyone uses the phrase 'slow as cold molasses in January' molasses has been clocked at 35 miles an hour in that month.....)

Um, wow. I have never heard of this before. A wall of molasses 8-15 feet high moving with enough force to lift a train off the tracks? It's just...

That has to be a cover for an appearance of Azathoth or a shoggoth or something.

[Crafty_Pat]

Um, wow. I have never heard of this before. A wall of molasses 8-15 feet high moving with enough force to lift a train off the tracks? It's just...

That has to be a cover for an appearance of Azathoth or a shoggoth or something.

 

Brilliant! That concept absolutely screams! Well done, K.

[Mister Andersen]

I was thinking of The Blob myself...

[Crafty_Alex]

Some ideas on Martial Arts vs. Zombies (please bear with what sounds like product pitches - they're just for your information ):

Remember, zombies save as gear due to the construct quality - that means they don't accumulate damage like standard NPCs. Combined with the general weaky damage of 1d6 from the Martial Arts feat (1d4 if they don't have it) and a decent damage save on your average zombie should mean they'd last a long time against a character with just one or 2 low to mid tier Unarmed Combat feats - long enough to spread their disease, at least... 

If your problem is with the Martial Artist class itself, the Back to Basics PDF supplement has more low-powered classes that are perfect for survival horror scenarios (and avoid the higher level class ability game-breaker antics of the core classes). It's an easy solution to make punching zombies a risky proposition. If high stats are breaking the game, you can also use the Small Screen campaign quality to keep things more realistic as well.

If that's STILL not enough, amp up the other routes to keep players away, such as Stress Damage. The Tense campaign quality is a good start, as is the Unnerving NPC quality to really have players staying away as much as possible. If you are using the Fragile Minds PDF, the Table of Sproing will quickly reeducate would be kung-fu badasses about the folly of their pugilistic ways... 

[Crafty_Pat]

Or, again, just don't let people take levels in the Martial Artist class.

[Ezram]

Some ideas on Martial Arts vs. Zombies (please bear with what sounds like product pitches - they're just for your information ):

Remember, zombies save as gear due to the construct quality - that means they don't accumulate damage like standard NPCs. Combined with the general weaky damage of 1d6 from the Martial Arts feat (1d4 if they don't have it) and a decent damage save on your average zombie should mean they'd last a long time against a character with just one or 2 low to mid tier Unarmed Combat feats - long enough to spread their disease, at least... 

If your problem is with the Martial Artist class itself, the Back to Basics PDF supplement has more low-powered classes that are perfect for survival horror scenarios (and avoid the higher level class ability game-breaker antics of the core classes). It's an easy solution to make punching zombies a risky proposition. If high stats are breaking the game, you can also use the Small Screen campaign quality to keep things more realistic as well.

If that's STILL not enough, amp up the other routes to keep players away, such as Stress Damage. The Tense campaign quality is a good start, as is the Unnerving NPC quality to really have players staying away as much as possible. If you are using the Fragile Minds PDF, the Table of Sproing will quickly reeducate would be kung-fu badasses about the folly of their pugilistic ways... 

Hm, I am not so sure that the construct quality fully captures all the nuances of the undead. Wasn't there a variation on the undead quality someone on the boards created?

Actually, I wasn't thinking of the Martial Artist class at all initially...just the feats which already exist in the core rules. I may have to take a look at it, however.

Finally, how big a role does terrain play when battling zombies (melee or otherwise)?

[Mister Andersen]

That would be my Complex Construct quality, to be found in the wiki.

The, ahem, critical problem with the construct quality - which mine sort to address - arises from the core D20 rules, which held that constructs and the undead universally were immune to critical hits. Which as anyone who has ever watched a vampire or zombie film knows is patently false.

[TheAuldGrump]

The Auld Grump, tar pits, industrial accidents, the Boston Molasses Disaster... (if anyone uses the phrase 'slow as cold molasses in January' molasses has been clocked at 35 miles an hour in that month.....)

Um, wow. I have never heard of this before. A wall of molasses 8-15 feet high moving with enough force to lift a train off the tracks? It's just...

When I was a kid you could still smell molasses seeping out from under the cobblestones on really hot summer days.

And molasses can act as a colloidal solid, like silly putty or the stuff that they used to put in Stretch Armstrong - soft and squishy in a low velocity impact, solid under a higher velocity one. (Hit Silly Putty with a hammer, it will shatter.)

It is a disaster that not many have heard of these days....

The Auld Grump

[Crafty_Alex]

That would be my Complex Construct quality, to be found in the wiki.

The, ahem, critical problem with the construct quality - which mine sort to address - arises from the core D20 rules, which held that constructs and the undead universally were immune to critical hits. Which as anyone who has ever watched a vampire or zombie film knows is patently false.

Constructs aren't immune to crits. They just save as if they were gear

[Agent 333]

There's of course the Undead quality in Spellbound Vol. 1 and I believe Fragile Minds as well (I'd be suprised if it wasn't, but I don't recall seeing it per se....). That should be closer for Zombie goodness...

[meadicus]

The undead quality in spellbound does make the critter immune to critical hits. I think the only disparity between this and the traditional zombie is that the zombie does have one weak spot, its head. But I am going mostly by Shawn of the Dead there.

[Ezram]

Well, there's always Called Shots...

[Mister Andersen]

Constructs aren't immune to crits. They just save as if they were gear

My bad, I was conflating my mechanics.  The aspect of the Construct quality was the invulnerability to sneak attacks (the reason for which in original d20 was identical to their crit immunity unde those rules) and a number of conditions that should have logically applied in a number of cases to creatures with it (such as robots)

[Ezram]

That's a good change of pace, and i'm glad constructs aren't immune.

[Morgenstern]

Constructs aren't immune to crits. They just save as if they were gear

My bad, I was conflating my mechanics.  The aspect of the Construct quality was the invulnerability to sneak attacks (the reason for which in original d20 was identical to their crit immunity unde those rules) and a number of conditions that should have logically applied in a number of cases to creatures with it (such as robots)

Most of the conditions that constructs are immune to could theoretically be inflicted on them, but would be applied for different reasons than flash and blood critters suffer them. Basically in settings with more robots, I'd probably include something like "Leech field- while in this area, robots suffer the effects of the bleeding condition." That way the effect can target specifically and produce the comperable result, without causing a squirel passing through the field to suddenly exsanguate itself. It is working as intended so that a sleep spell or knockout dart doesn't do anything to them. A good intermediate text example is the luminous quality, which does indicate they can be poisoned, but only by tailored poisons, rather than default varieties.