Martial arts and the undead

[Ezram]

Perhaps it's just me, but after playing many videogames, and seeing many movies (*coughAlicecough*), I have decided that characters having access to unarmed combat feats somewhat defeats the feeling of "helplessness" created by zombie attacks and undead hordes in general.

Where's the excitement or danger when the character can just deliver roundhouse kicks to the flesh-eaters and not worry if they run out of ammo? 

I realize that there are melee weapons, but in a modern age, they're either small (knives, batons) or improvised, with the heavier stuff (swords, axes) being more of a rarity.

Does anyone here have advice for making a zombie siege type game feasible with these thoughts in mind?

[meadicus]

The danger comes from the fact that that to use unarmed combat requires you to be very near to your opponent when your opponent is likely to eat your brains. Guns mean you're probably a good 20-30ft away from the never-ending armies of undead, personally I'd prefer that.

Also, this thing's a walking dead person, do you really want to put your hand in that? I'd suggest putting some disease in those walking rotting corpses.

Plus there's a lot of GC joy to be had with stress damage. If you're planning a zombie game I'd seriously recommend picking up the Fragile Minds pdf. It's mostly keyed to cthulhu type stuff but it is also a very good general expansion of the stress rules, particularly when it comes to inflicting stress on players. 

[Ezram]

When they can ramp up their Defense with bonuses such as Fighting Defensively, extend their reach with abilities and dance around zombies while striking and rarely getting hit...the thrill of being up close is minimal, if existant at all.

Of course in large groups, both ranged and melee combatants will be scared, but I am of course speaking of solitary or smaller gatherings of the undead. If you throw hordes at the players all the time, things get dull quick.

[meadicus]

But then the zombies just keep coming...

Have a look at the Resolve/Morale skill, you might find what you're looking for there.

I had a situation in one of my games when one of the characters was being arrested by the local cops, at one point he had his hands up with 12 cops pointing their guns at him all easily within CQB range. Then he decided to just kick off, he was a good unarmed combatant and easily started knocking his way through them. The cops were then firing into melee or grapples, so rarely hit, and he had some minor armour. Eventually the player got bored, stole a police car and got away.

After that we were both a bit disappointed as how it had played out, like you say not much thrill when it's all too easy. That was until I discovered the Resolve/Morale and realised the very high DCs he needed to have been passing to fight in that situation.

It's an odd feature of the system. Though the character may not be in much danger because he's a very competent hero, there is this system for handling how dangerous the situation should feel.

Hope that helps.

[Mister Andersen]

Because unarmed attacks miss too. Not only that, but the PC has to be lucky all the time.

The undead just has to be lucky once. A successful bite attack, a drop of infected blood in an open wound, and your high kicking martial artist is eating brains with the rest of them - and that's assuming the PC doesn't critically stuff up, fall flat on their face and get devoured by a swarm.

[Ezram]

Have a look at the Resolve/Morale skill, you might find what you're looking for there.

Interesting point: it is a fine line between imposing a sense of hesitation and allowing them to go to town on the shamblers.

---

Because unarmed attacks miss too

They sure do miss, but it still reduces the nagging feeling of "i'm running low on ammo" when that layer of security still exists, and they don't have a suitable weapon to club the zombies with, but they can deliver a dizzying array of blows to hold their attacker off.

That, and I very much doubt an able melee combatant is going to stand toe-to-toe with a horde willingly: they're most likely in the same situation as any other (running away!).

[Mister Andersen]

Of course, you do realise that by the time the melee and unarmed experts are slugging it out with the horde, that HAVE run out of ammo?

[Krensky]

You can also upgrade the zombies:

Horror Movie Zombie (Standard NPC - 82 XP) Init II; Atk V; Def II; Resilience IV; Damage Save: VII; Competence: I; (21) Skills: None; Wealth: None; Weapons: None; Gear: None; Vehicle: None; All Thumbs, Clumsy, Construct, Damage Reduction 5, Fearsome, Horde, Horror, Improved Scent, Low-Light Vision, Minion, Natural Attack (Cal II Bite, Cal VI Poison Saliva (Zombie Contagion)), Sluggish I (Speed 20'), Tough II, Uncoordinated, Unnerving I

Zombie Contagion:
130/+18   1d4 days   28   1 Str, 1 Con  1d4 hours   30   2d6 Con, 2d6 Str
All ability damage is permanent. At the GC's discretion, characters who die while infected with this contagion become zombies.

[Equinox]

I would also ask what kind of game you're running.

If it's a combat-oriented game, then what you're saying makes a lot of sense, and I would agree with you. However, if it's more of an espionage-oriented spy game, where combat may or may not come into play, then I would wonder how those melee-heavy characters are surviving during some of the more social encounters.

[Ezram]

I would also ask what kind of game you're running.

If it's a combat-oriented game, then what you're saying makes a lot of sense, and I would agree with you. However, if it's more of an espionage-oriented spy game, where combat may or may not come into play, then I would wonder how those melee-heavy characters are surviving during some of the more social encounters.

In general, zombie games tend to be combat and exploration oriented: rarely involving espionage elements (asides from the occasional sneaking past an area).

I was also going by the Horror campaign examples in the book.

[mouthymerc]

The reason many characters in zombie movies stay away from the zombies is because of the contagion (as has already been pointed out by others).  Most genres of this type have the zombies with some type of contagion which can affect you if you are wounded by the zombies.  If there is a chance of contracting the contagion from any damage inflicted by the zombies, then the characters will be extremely wary of going hand to hand.  Which is what makes hordes of zombies look horrifying.

The other problem with zombie hordes is multiple grapplers.  If even one zombie gets a hold of you it could spell your doom.  One grabs you and three more join in.  You are not going to be jumping around then.  And then others in the horde have an easier time attacking you.  A nasty piece of business, that.

[spinningdice]

If it's that much an issue I'd recommend the following qualities:
Fragile - when you've so much less vitality you'll think twice about getting into their range.
Gritty - increases the chance of a critical hit, but only for them on you...
Gunmen - A not so subtle nudge to encourage people to specialise more in ranged combat.

Back to Basics - Has the side effect of delaying people from getting Martial Arts until 6th level, as there's no Martial Arts class (unless they take Master speciality from WoF...)

Don't have access to Fragile Minds at the moment, but I dare say there's lots more in there that would make them think twice.

[Krensky]

There's the Horror NPC quality which penalizes other's Will saves and makes them tougher.

Not to mention the eponymous Quality.

[famine]

It might also be an idea to stress to your characters that if one of them is in melee, it's going to make it harder for their friends to shoot those zombies since they'll be firing into melee. 

You could also look up some other qualities for your zombies.  I know there was one that let them ignore the first failed damage save, does anyone recall that one?  This way they won't go down as easily, so they get more strikes at the PC's.

[mouthymerc]

I know there was one that let them ignore the first failed damage save, does anyone recall that one? 

Tough is the quality you are referring to.