class ability - attribute increases

[afrodave]

So some classes give an ability increase of 1, where as others give an increase of 2 to a single attribute and others allow you to select one of two attributes to increase by one.

What gives?  Why the differances?  I can understand increasing one stat by 2 and other classes alow you to select one of two stats to increase by one. (concentration over versatility) but why a stat increase of only one?

Thanks guys.

[Morgenstern]

Examples? And include the class level at which the ability is gained - there is likely a correlation.

[afrodave]

Here is the total break-down of the class stat increases:
Base:
Explorer: Rugged: Con +1 at levels 6, 9, 12, 15, 18 (additional abilities at levels 9, 12, & 15)
Scientist: Brilliant: Int +1 at levels 6, 9, 12, 15, 18 (additional abilities at levels 9, 12, & 15)
Sleuth: Perceptive: Wis +1 at levels 6, 9, 12, 15, 18(additional abilities at levels 9, 12, & 15)
Fixer: Allure: Chr +1 at levels 5, 9, 13, 17 (additional ability at level 9)
Martial Artist: Life of Discipline: 2, 11, 19 (each can add +1 to an attribute and other abilities)
Expert:
Brawler: Buff:  Str and Con +1 at level 6
Tactician: Commanding Presence:  Int and Chr +1 at level 6.
Forward: Poise, at 4 and 8, lowest attribute +1. (is increasing a character's lowest attribute as helpful?  but these increases also include the armor use at the same level)
High Roller: Allure: Chr +2 at level 6.
Ninja: Deft: Dex +2 at level 6.
Provacteur: Allure: Chr +1 at level 4. (additional ability at this level)
Terrorist: Perceptive: Wis +1 at levels 3 & 7 (additional ability at level 7)

Master:
Goliath: Brilliant: Int +1 at levels 1 & 4
Menace: Excellence: highest attribute +1 at level 1 & 4.

So Base classes from the main book are consistent with each other.
The new classes seem a bit off. An increase of +2 to a stat will give a higher modifier immediately. where as the +1 increases may give bonuses or simply speed up when you'll get a bonus (depending on when the attribute increase happens, every 4 levels or every 3 or 5 with campaign mods.)

example: (using standard attribute increase every 4 levels)
at creation Chr 16. selecting Witty increases to 18.  faceman.
after level 4 (Chr 19) they go into the Provacateur expert class.
at career level 8, they gain +1 to Chr (now a 20) from Prov class. they also get a +1 to any attribute. Most are gonna go for an even attribute build so they'll waste the stat increase to an odd number. or they can increase their Chr again to a 21. again an odd number so no benefit gained until level 12.

Ok I'll admit I noticed this because the Prov class only gains a +1 across the class.  Growing up watching the Baroness from GI Joe (yay Seinna Miller in 2009) and now watching Lena Olin as Irina Derevko on Alias, yes I'm gonna want to see what the Provacatuer class can do. and I think it's a great class, mostly.

Also, trying to get a better understanding of what you guys look at for class levels.   Thanks again for your time and the quality of product you produce.

[Morgenstern]

Good summary. The distinction is that different levels give abilities with different values. For base classes the 2/11/19 slot and the 10/20 slot give larger bonuses (typically a +2 to one stat, +1 to two stats or +1 and some other benefit). The 6/9/12/15/18 slot gives a +1 when used for an attribute bump. Fixer is getting an odd one, but it's at about the +1 benefit level. It shows slightly early but is offset by a max cumulative bonus of +4.

In the Expert classes the D slot (4/8; granting +1) is similar to the 4/8/12/16/20 or 6/9/12/15/18 slots of base classes. The F (6) slot is rated on par with the 2/11/19 set and so if that's where the class gets an attribute bump, it's one of those larger bumps. Provocateur is a bit of an odd duck as it is getting an attribute bump not in the D slot (filled by sidetrack) but in the unique 'E' slot that Expert classes have. Unusual, but not strictly prohibited. I felt the Provocateur could benefit from slightly better Charisma, but didn't have the burning need some of the other 'face time' classes have.

Expert Class Ability Slots Template:

1 A, core
2 B1
3 C1
4 D1, E
5 C2
6 F
7 B2, C3
8 D2, G
9 C4
10 H

[Bill Whitmore]

It is things like this that make me appreciate how much work has gone into this system.

[Morgenstern]

It was mostly work up front back when we were working on the first two hard covers in first edition. Having the templates makes it less work to do a balanced class. You don't have to muck around  with "Oh, should I give them seomething else at level 5? Is this gonna be balanced against other class choices at the same level?"

Official record for the fastest written published Spycraft Expert class is 46 minutes from concept to into edits. We realized we hadn't addressed an important branch of an organization and needed to get it done before a book deadline only hours away .

[Ezram]

Why do Soldiers have great Will saves? Shouldn't that be left to SERE or something?

[spinningdice]

Combat is about the most stressful situation out there, if you want to someone to not flinch under fire it would be the soldier.

[Ezram]

Hm, then why is it they have a tough time readjusting to society when their duty is over?  Wouldn't that fall under Will saves, or...?

[spinningdice]

That's probably due to using Charisma as a dump stat (j/k).
I don't know, I don't imagine that as any sort of save (or roll), I think in any job where you have power over life and death, whether it be a soldier, spy or doctor - it'd be hard adjusting back & Soldiers do go back to normal lives, for every one that has problems there are many more who live normal lives.
If you wanted a soldier who couldn't let go, it'd be best handled as a subplot I think.
As a final note, due to the way SC classes are balanced, there shouldn't be any issue with swapping around which saves are Poor/Good/Bad (as GC, obviously not as a player) if you feel it's not representative of your world.

[Krensky]

Why do Soldiers have great Will saves? Shouldn't that be left to SERE or something?

Because it's a game. So its mechanics need to support a playable view of the world. Soldiers are supposed to be tough both mentally and physically, so they get a d12 Vitality, Moderate Fort and Good Will saves.

Hm, then why is it they have a tough time readjusting to society when their duty is over?  Wouldn't that fall under Will saves, or...?

That would generally be a post-traumatic stress disorder, which is covered by an Unhinged (Personality Disorder) subplot. Unhinged subplots must be role played out, there's no mechanical completion criteria. Note, however, Unhinged Subplots are not appropriate for a lot of games and, properly, the Fragile Minds campaign quality needs to be in effect for them to be taken. They are also usually acquired as a result things occurring in play that lead to a roll on the Table of Sproing as opposed to selected. See Fragile Minds for details.

[Ezram]

Didn't it used to be called shell shock / battle fatigue?

I'm just a little put off by the +9 max base Fort save for Soldier 20, I would probably rule it to +12 if I ever got a game going.

See Fragile Minds for details.

Where can I get/see it at?

[Agent 333]

Fragile Minds is a PDF release available at Drive Thru RPG. Just search for "Spycraft" and you'll find all the PDFs so far...

And if you want to give Soldiers a good Fort save be sure to lower something else... as is they're already stretched pretty thin as far as wanting to be good at everything. Maybe switch their Fort and Will saves if you're unhappy with them?

[Antilles]

Or, y'know, just click the Buy Now button at the top left of the main site toolbar.

[Bill Whitmore]

Official record for the fastest written published Spycraft Expert class is 46 minutes from concept to into edits. We realized we hadn't addressed an important branch of an organization and needed to get it done before a book deadline only hours away .

Which Expert class was that?