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Author Topic: a bit dissapointed about the SP  (Read 9364 times)
DrHood
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« on: December 18, 2007, 02:42:37 PM »

The book went from glossy full color to non-glossy B/W Sad

Still bought it though
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OverNinja
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« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2007, 03:37:26 PM »

The price wound be quite high (double or more).
Unless you can pull the AEG's goat sacrifice trick out of your sleeve Wink.
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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2007, 03:36:48 AM »

Yup. We did everything in our power to go color but it wasn't to be. At the end, after you factor in all the people taking a chunk of the book's proceeds, it would have had to be at least $69.95 to break even. At least. Maybe more. Just not an option. Sad
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2008, 08:54:44 PM »

Sorry, guys, the switch to B&W for the Second Printing was a huge letdown for me. I'd rather see the book at a more expensive price bracket than witness a new version of the book appear lower quality than the original AEG version. At the very least, I think you guys should have been more transparent in letting fans know the new version would not be colour. And to be really on top of the ball, the interior design graphics should have been changed to reflect the need for greyscale. The tech readouts on top of the pages look excessively busy and dull.

If I had known the new version was going to be B&W, I would have bought a copy of the older AEG book at my local shop, flawed Gear charts at all. The new book is just not on the same publication calibre. Plus, the book seems to be suffering from that nasty Mongoose binder. The spine just didn't look right in the store.

I'm not trying to beat up on Crafty, as you guys are the premier designers for rules and mechanics for the d20 game system, IMO. However, it's disappointing to see a game company building systems on a higher tier than WotC release a product that, aesthetics-wise, looks amateur in comparison.

Any chance we can see Fantasy Craft in colour? For me, this will make or break this product.
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2008, 09:13:24 PM »

In my opinion, Crafty was plenty transparent about the new printing being B&W. I believe they stated as much at least several months ago. I know I've been aware of it since before October...

And I really don't mind. Pricing the book at $70 would cripple sales. I think we were all just spoiled by AEG's super-secret cheap-printing voodoo.

And remaking the entire interior layout for a 500 page book would probably have put another 3-4 month delay on it's release, plus it would be pushing back the release dates of other products.
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2008, 10:04:12 PM »

Quote
The tech readouts on top of the pages look excessively busy and dull.

They've always looked like that even in the colour version. I really wish they'd stuck with the elegant simplicity of 1.0's layout design.
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2008, 10:11:45 PM »

Those binding issues mongoose was so famous for have reared their ugly head. My particular copies binding wasn't even glued on. You can tell looking at it, now that it's not longer attached to thebook. Fortunately, it seems likely that my 1 week old copy with no binding on it is going to be replaced. Netotiations with Mongoose (and my local game shop) are ongoing.
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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2008, 10:22:40 PM »

I remember when the book first came out with the claim "the game was meant to be played, not read". Whoa, the caterwauling over on complain.net... I mean RPGnet. The basic fact was it's true.

While I agree that the color edition with its are was simply beautiful, I was glad to have a very functional new edition at the table. Just like the first printing, it was meant to be used.
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2008, 11:26:43 PM »

Sorry, guys, but the best games both play and look great. One need not compromise one for the other.
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Toccata
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2008, 11:54:08 PM »

Sorry, guys, but the best games both play and look great. One need not compromise one for the other.

I'd have to disagree slightly. Being able to afford the book trumps looking great, in my book. Looking not terrible is very important, but I'm willing to compromise on graphic design for having a book people will actually purchase.
I mean, I buy novels frequently, and they just have text on a page.

Don't get me wrong, gorgeous books are awesome, but if going from good to gorgeous takes the book above the average gamer's monthy gaming budget, that's just a bad business decision.
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2008, 12:46:28 AM »

At it's heart, a gaming book like SC2.0 Core is a reference book. So the most important qualities for it to possess are legibility and a layout and design that makes it easy to reference. If anything, printing in greyscale improves those, especially with the new gear tables and the new layout for them.

In color the book would be prohibitively expensive rather then merely expensive. It also weighs a pound or so more according to a poster here. The black and white on heavy bond is also more durable then glossy color printing since there's far less ink smudging and transfer from use.

The best games play great period. Fancy artwork and spiffy layout are cool and all, but a good game is just as good written up using noting but plain test and ASCII tables. And a bad game is not saved or helped by tons of glossy color and shiny art. Often they're hurt by it, since a book with good ideas and a few interesting rules and such might be a good value at a black and white price, but isn't at a glossy color price.
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2008, 07:33:02 AM »

I'm going to be a little strange here and and say I think the book looks better in B&W. Namely in the art. I always though the art looks very cartoony and I could never really see it representing serious characters on gritty missions in a dark world. I find now the B&W print has given the art this quality.

Of course I still can't take the picture of the Advocate seriously...
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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2008, 09:27:08 AM »

Color = diversity.

But, i'm still a big fan of quality over quantity.  Smiley
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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2008, 10:20:37 AM »

Crafty may have made an announcement back in October that the SP would be in B&W, but it hasn't been attached to the official product description on this Web site. I'm really glad now I didn't pre-order it.

From what I can tell from DriveThruRPG, Crafty's PDFs are in colour at least. Is this confirmed for all of their PDF releases?

I guess I could go the PDF route and then take the material to a local printer to have it spiral-bound in colour.
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« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2008, 10:24:12 AM »

Quote
The best games play great period. Fancy artwork and spiffy layout are cool and all, but a good game is just as good written up using noting but plain test and ASCII tables.

Couldn't disagree more, and I've been RPGing since the '80s. Sure, bad games are obviously never saved by good graphics, but excellent designs are most definitely dragged down by bad aesthetics, especially for RPGs. Atmosphere is essential for the tabletop roleplaying game and graphics are among the leading contributors to that.
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