Author Topic: Conflict pools over 20 die  (Read 1351 times)

RageDizzy

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Conflict pools over 20 die
« on: September 07, 2014, 10:08:23 AM »
When a die pool exceeds 10 die in a conflict, the rest is added to your defense pool. What happens if that pool too exceeds 10 die?

For example if i tap 50 charges of pewter while punching someone, i get 10 action die, 10 defense die, and what happens to the remaining 30 charges? do they become nudges?

Kadrok

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Re: Conflict pools over 20 die
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2014, 03:28:24 PM »
With the Pewter thing, you can't. My understanding is that you tap to add to a roll after the defence dice have been peeled off.

So it goes...
1. Determine total dice from attribute/standing/power with trait, circumstance and tool increases (etc). Let's say it's 4.
2. Determine turn order from that (plus whatever fSteel charges have been spent to modify turn order). Let's say you spend 2 charges of speed to go when people with 6 dice go, even though you actually have 4.
3. It's your turn. Determine how your dice will be assigned. Let's say you use 2 for the roll and 2 become defence.
4. Now you choose to tap (before you roll). You can only tap up to 8 on individual dice (up to rolling 10). You can also tap blocks of 5 for extra nudges and blocks of 10 to increase your outcome. Let's say you go all out, tapping 8 to have a dice pool of 10, tapping 10 for an outcome increase of 1 and tapping 10 for 2 free nudges. Total of 28 spent, 2 less than your maximum of 30 per action (assuming a rating 3 fPewter).
5. You pulp your opponent. Next turn his ally attacks you. You put your remaining 2 dice into defece and tap fSteel to enhance it (you're thematically dodging his blow). The same limitations apply as above, but this time you don't go all out; you tap 8 to bring your roll to 10 and leave it at that.

(As an alternative #5, if you'd rolled a nudge on your 10 attack dice, you'd have had a total of 3 nudges and could have caught a beat and used to 2 defence dice as the seed of a preemptive strike against your victim's ally)

Make sense?
Interesting discussion, but I think rule of cool could reasonably trump mere science in a game about magic powers.   :P

Herowannabe

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Re: Conflict pools over 20 die
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2014, 08:26:37 PM »
Kadrok mentioned it briefly, but in case it wasn't completely clear, the rules state that when tapping feruchemical charges individually to add dice to your action pool, you can only increase your action pool up to 10D, no more.

However, there are some ways you COULD conceivably end up with more than 20D in one beat. For example, take a mistborn with maxed out stats declaring a physical attack while burning Pewter and Atium. He would end up with 6D (physique) +10D (Pewter) +10D (Atium) for a total of 26D. He uses 10D for his attack and the other 16D become defense dice. When someone attacks him that beat he uses 10D to defend, and the other *6D stay in the defense dice supply in case he gets attacked again.

does that make sense now?


(*Or more, since Atium is involved. See some of the threads here discussing Atium in the game. I'm of the opinion that Atium adds dice to every action roll AND every defense roll. So in this case the Mistborn would get 10D for each of his defense rolls, and thus would have 16 defense dice floating around that he would never get to use.)

Edit: It might be helpful to point out the difference between Dice SUPPLIES and Dice POOLS.
When you declare an action, you form your Action Dice SUPPLY based on the relative attribute/standing/power. When it's your turn to take your action, you form an action POOL by taking dice from your Action SUPPLY. Any dice left in your Action SUPPLY get moved to your Defense SUPPLY.

Dice SUPPLIES have no limit- you can have as many in there as you want and are able.
Dice POOLS are what you actually roll, and are limited to 10D.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 08:31:09 PM by Herowannabe »

Kadrok

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Re: Conflict pools over 20 die
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2014, 08:35:24 PM »
To add to what Hero added (*bro-five!* Hero), if Atium putting you in a position in which dice become useless seems strange, recall that one of the Atium stunts 'Atium Nudge' allows you to essentially trade in potentially useless dice for free Nudges.
Interesting discussion, but I think rule of cool could reasonably trump mere science in a game about magic powers.   :P

Kurkistan_

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Re: Conflict pools over 20 die
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2014, 09:04:33 PM »
Also, (as Kadrok knows...) there's reason to believe that you can only "add dice" to pools that, at the very least, are not 0. So if you have an Atium rating of 10 but no "real" dice left you can't form any defense pool at all. This as the way the rules work is heavily suggested by the existence of the "Bullet Dodge" Stunt in the AoL supplement.

So Hero's ultra-mistborn would actually have to commit at least 1 die (at a cost of -1 Result) or 2 die (for no penalty) before being able to add on any Atium dice to either attacks or defense. So it follows that any atium rating above 8 (9, technically, if you're willing to form 1-dice pools and take the Result hit) is indeed worthless without taking that Nudge stunt.

Kadrok

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Re: Conflict pools over 20 die
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2014, 11:33:49 PM »
@Kurk and @Hero *triple bro-five*!
Interesting discussion, but I think rule of cool could reasonably trump mere science in a game about magic powers.   :P

Shpjokk

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Re: Conflict pools over 20 die
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2014, 02:39:54 PM »
Thanks for the help from those who have replied, all of us in that group (RageDizzy n me and some others) have been wondering about this one for a while xD (I should really read through the rulebooks more thoroughly .-.)

pkitty

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Re: Conflict pools over 20 die
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2014, 12:27:07 PM »
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but wouldn't you want a defense pool over 10d if you were defending against multiple attackers? If there are three or four guys who might attack you, it would be much better to have (say) 16d to split between those defenses than to "just" have 10d.

xadcirk

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Re: Conflict pools over 20 die
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2014, 01:18:15 PM »
Per the Rule book any Dice over 10 in a pool are converted to automatic Nuges. So any pool over 20 dice will mean 10 offence, 10 Defence and a number of nugges = to the number of dice over 20 split as you want between the 2 pools.
" What does that have to do with the Price of Steel in Elendel?" - Hood, Famous last words.

Kadrok

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Re: Conflict pools over 20 die
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2014, 11:51:39 PM »
Per the Rule book any Dice over 10 in a pool are converted to automatic Nuges. So any pool over 20 dice will mean 10 offence, 10 Defence and a number of nugges = to the number of dice over 20 split as you want between the 2 pools.
That's not how it works in a conflict. See above.
Interesting discussion, but I think rule of cool could reasonably trump mere science in a game about magic powers.   :P

xadcirk

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Re: Conflict pools over 20 die
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2014, 06:48:52 AM »
As I was
" What does that have to do with the Price of Steel in Elendel?" - Hood, Famous last words.