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Author Topic: I sit on the lighter end of rules spectrum , will 3.0 be for me?  (Read 3699 times)
Crafty_Pat
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« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2012, 03:13:45 AM »

Sounds good.  I don't mind if the A/T rules go by themselves, the big thing we liked was that a bike was different from a van which was in turn different from a pimped out sedan.  The "feel" was what we liked (more then the specific rule itself), and from other aspects of your games (knives vs axe vs club, for example) I have no doubt that'll continue.

It will. Honestly, there would be little reason to list more than a few general vehicle types at most otherwise - and that's not happening.
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Patrick Kapera
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« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2012, 08:00:22 AM »

CP & CA always have great information and contact with their customers and fan base.  Gents and Lasses, I think we should return the favor a little bit and ease off the teasing about the Crafty Timetables.  (Especially if you read the Spellbound post.)  It may be in kind humor to us, but I can only imagine what its like being 6 weeks mobile and have someone pestering you about a deadline you know past 2 months ago.  ...actually.. I know exactly what that's like.  And sometimes, even if a co-worker makes the joke, after awhile, the joke starts to grate.
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« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2012, 08:40:30 AM »

Pat, that's all good news, especially the freedom from the OGL and the Chase stuff. I'll be patiently awaiting what lands next.
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« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2012, 03:59:02 PM »

How much of the 2nd edition and FC there will still be? I mean does it still have levels and classes, feats etc. that are part of the d20 system type of games.
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« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2012, 04:12:43 PM »


"Compatible" is the term we use to mean "little to no effort to use books together."

"Portable" is the term we use to mean "these books are not intended to work together but you can hack them together with some effort ...
(Bold mine)

Well, that just killed my excitement.

I was looking forward to using Spellbound with SC3 & 10K Bullets, but it seems that ain't gonna happen.

Oh. Same thing here. I thought all the new MC games would all be slight variations on the system in FC. I wouldn't like a complete re-write of the system as different from FC as SC 2.0 is from FC.

Not sure about anyone else but I'm running games combining fantasy characters with modern characters/weapons and Sci-fi items. I'm having to convert SC2.0 Origins/items to FC to make them work together and I was hoping with SC3.0 I could take say a modern Combatant type hero and put him and his gear alongside a sword wielding Ratfolk Burglar without the conversion.  Huh?
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« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2012, 04:26:33 PM »

I'm not Gundark (obviously), but my group also got behind Chases in a big way.  Mostly because they were Chases.  At that point (and possibly still) no other game had a good mechanic for chases, and they are something that's so prevalent in the sort of source material we use that having a system for them was just fantastic.  Well run, they were fun and evocative sequences, and the rules had enough depth to cover a whole heap of situations, while not being so dense that they were painful to use.

First, thanks much for the feedback. As it happens, DramCons are one of the last, if not the last, major component Alex and I have yet to settle on. We have strong thoughts about how it should work, but those ideas have yet to coalesce on paper.

Quote
Remove Strategy Penalties.  My group decided very early on that a handful of Strategies (Redline and Outfox in particular) where "the Strategy", depending on if you were Predator or Prey.  Having a +2 bonus when I was suffering between a -4 and -8 meant that they'd frequently get another advantage (or use the net benefit to practically guarantee winning).  It meant that the "Chase" bit became less exciting (and more predictable), and the stuff going on around it had to be ramped out to keep the scene exciting (opponents suppressing their driver, attacks against tyres, etc).

This is actually one of my biggest personal issues with the 2.0 system, so consider that point well represented at the design table. Smiley

(Thanks for the assist BTW. As a designer it's very nice to see other folks validating your ideas. It helps you suss out when you're not crazy - which, let's admit it, is often a dicey diagnosis.)


I was also a big fan of the Dramatic Conflicts, and I enjoyed their use for things other than Chases as well. In fact, I liked the DramCon idea so much that I toyed around with ways of making combat a DramCon, just to see what would come of it.

If you are collecting input, here are some more things:

- introduce a timer. This may be tricky, but I think worthwhile. I remember sessions where the chase just took too long, because neither participant could solidify his gains, and we kept trading lead gains back and forth. I'm envisioning something like a total number of leads that need to be attained, and the first participant to reach that number wins the DramCon

- more options for everybody. Some DramCons seem to limit the number of actions a character can take severely (was looking at Seduction the other day, where more than half the actions have some form of prerequisite in lead or other). I'd rather see people that have the prereq get a bonus, than not be able to take the option at all. Also, options that don't necessarily use the principal skill check for that particular DramCon.

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Crafty_Pat
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« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2012, 08:06:39 PM »

How much of the 2nd edition and FC there will still be? I mean does it still have levels and classes, feats etc. that are part of the d20 system type of games.

As I mentioned, we can't speak to specific rules yet. I can verify that enough of what makes up an OGL game is replaced or different that we there's no need for the license.
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Patrick Kapera
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Crafty_Pat
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« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2012, 08:09:28 PM »

I was also a big fan of the Dramatic Conflicts, and I enjoyed their use for things other than Chases as well. In fact, I liked the DramCon idea so much that I toyed around with ways of making combat a DramCon, just to see what would come of it.

We're big fans of using DramCons for other things as well, though we do feel a re-framing of that effort is in order. More on that as we firm up details.

Quote
- introduce a timer. This may be tricky, but I think worthwhile. I remember sessions where the chase just took too long, because neither participant could solidify his gains, and we kept trading lead gains back and forth. I'm envisioning something like a total number of leads that need to be attained, and the first participant to reach that number wins the DramCon

We've considered that. In fact, about half the approaches proposed so far feature a timer.

Quote
- more options for everybody. Some DramCons seem to limit the number of actions a character can take severely (was looking at Seduction the other day, where more than half the actions have some form of prerequisite in lead or other). I'd rather see people that have the prereq get a bonus, than not be able to take the option at all. Also, options that don't necessarily use the principal skill check for that particular DramCon.

Could not agree more. This is of course tied to the bonus issue above.

Thanks for the feedback!
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Patrick Kapera
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« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2012, 11:40:08 PM »

How much of the 2nd edition and FC there will still be? I mean does it still have levels and classes, feats etc. that are part of the d20 system type of games.

As I mentioned, we can't speak to specific rules yet. I can verify that enough of what makes up an OGL game is replaced or different that we there's no need for the license.

Is that a gut feeling or an actual legal opinion? Because I can absolutely see some haters looking at that and going "Challenge accepted"
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« Reply #54 on: November 21, 2012, 02:23:39 AM »

How much of the 2nd edition and FC there will still be? I mean does it still have levels and classes, feats etc. that are part of the d20 system type of games.

As I mentioned, we can't speak to specific rules yet. I can verify that enough of what makes up an OGL game is replaced or different that we there's no need for the license.
Interesting. Thanks for the info! I have to check out the OGL and try and guess what that and your comment combined might mean. Data analysis roll, anyone? Smiley

Anyway, I sit at the lighter end for systems these days as well, so what I have read so far sounds promising.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 02:29:09 AM by SnowDog » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: November 21, 2012, 02:40:57 AM »

Is that a gut feeling or an actual legal opinion? Because I can absolutely see some haters looking at that and going "Challenge accepted"

It's a fact. There's really no way anyone could argue this has to be an OGL game.
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Patrick Kapera
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« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2012, 08:12:44 AM »

How much of the 2nd edition and FC there will still be? I mean does it still have levels and classes, feats etc. that are part of the d20 system type of games.

As I mentioned, we can't speak to specific rules yet. I can verify that enough of what makes up an OGL game is replaced or different that we there's no need for the license.

Is that a gut feeling or an actual legal opinion? Because I can absolutely see some haters looking at that and going "Challenge accepted"

LOL.  You could post "the sky is blue" and some genius on the internet will be like  Shocked "GREEN!"  I firmly leave OGL, and all other IP discussions in the solid hands of attorneys and law makers.
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« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2012, 09:12:42 AM »

Is that a gut feeling or an actual legal opinion? Because I can absolutely see some haters looking at that and going "Challenge accepted"

It's a fact. There's really no way anyone could argue this has to be an OGL game.

That's uh...  quite a thing.

Certainly has me curious about what this product will look like in the end.
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« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2012, 09:30:20 AM »

LOL.  You could post "the sky is blue" and some genius on the internet will be like  Shocked "GREEN!"  I firmly leave OGL, and all other IP discussions in the solid hands of attorneys and law makers.

Sky has no color actually. That's just the visible light we see most of the time. *halo*
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« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2012, 06:30:34 PM »

Chases are some of my most fondest memories from Spycraft.

That's great to hear. Smiley

Quote
Glad to hear they are coming back.

So... What do you love about them so much, and how do you think they could improve?

Please be as specific as possible.

What worked was the choosing of strategies. There was some aprehension on whether the right strategy was chosen. It was nice that there was a mechnic for chases that felt like a chase. Too many games include chases as a series of oppossed rolls (by themselves) which feels bland. I want their to be some apprehension to the choice to the "detour" strategy as I havn't seen what the GM has chosen.

That said I think I would want you to step away from *Strategy X has a modifier of -4 because the GM chose Strategy Y and I had to look on a chart to see it. Avoid excessive charts  please.

For me it's about feel; the chase scences in the Bourne movies were exciting, even now as I re-watch them I still feel that. Your game mechanics need to capture that sense of risk, and apprehension.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 06:35:06 PM by Gundark » Logged
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