Author Topic: Called Shots, Weakpoints and Armor  (Read 2508 times)

Jackal_mkII

  • Agent
  • ***
  • Posts: 230
    • View Profile
    • Jackals at the Table
Called Shots, Weakpoints and Armor
« on: November 09, 2012, 02:15:17 PM »
I know we have the Called Shot Trick and that one Trick from Axe Mastery that does damage to gear as well as the target.  Without those, is it possible to target a weak point, say a creature that has an overly large eye that begs for an arrow, or to specifically try to damage and destroy something's armor? I have a few ideas for some gimmicky fights, but I don't want to have to require that someone in my group have something they may or may not have by choice.
http://jackaldice.blogspot.com/  Noob gamer reconciles 4 years of gaming observations. Updates Wednesdays.

Goodlun

  • Handler
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
  • Yeah thats me with my Judo Gi and an AK-47
    • View Profile
Re: Called Shots, Weakpoints and Armor
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2012, 03:30:43 PM »
Here is how I would handle what your looking for.
Have your characters roll there attack
if they get a number in within his threat range and activates it with his action dice
then the character hits the creature with the giant eye in the eye.

Morgenstern

  • Control
  • ******
  • Posts: 6500
    • View Profile
Re: Called Shots, Weakpoints and Armor
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2012, 06:37:20 PM »
You might find the cheap shot more in line with your desires. Poking out an eye might work nicely as cheap shoting their Wisdom...
At your own pace: Do. It. Now.
How about some pie? - Heroes of the Expanse

Jackal_mkII

  • Agent
  • ***
  • Posts: 230
    • View Profile
    • Jackals at the Table
Re: Called Shots, Weakpoints and Armor
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2012, 07:53:07 PM »
Yeah, I can see some of the tactics some of my group have used in the past would require Cheap Shot or Called Shot. On the one hand, not having that kind of option as a basic combat maneuver can be somewhat limiting for those that haven't taken said tricks, but it does prevent some of my smarter players from using actual combat tactics while not rolling with combat related skills.

That would mean I would have to save some of these gimmicky ideas for when someone actually does go through the trouble, but i get to highlight their choice of tactics once they do.

An example from a previous campaign in 4e: Shooting at a dragons wings to impair it's flight. In FC that would be a Cheap Shot to flight speed. The player might be able to think of that, but it would be implied that if he hasn't taken Cheap Shot as a trick, his character wouldn't have thought of it. Is that a fair assumption, then?
http://jackaldice.blogspot.com/  Noob gamer reconciles 4 years of gaming observations. Updates Wednesdays.

Sletchman

  • Control
  • ******
  • Posts: 4112
  • Gentleman Scholar.
    • View Profile
    • The SletchWeb
Re: Called Shots, Weakpoints and Armor
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2012, 10:50:33 PM »
Yeah, I can see some of the tactics some of my group have used in the past would require Cheap Shot or Called Shot. On the one hand, not having that kind of option as a basic combat maneuver can be somewhat limiting for those that haven't taken said tricks, but it does prevent some of my smarter players from using actual combat tactics while not rolling with combat related skills.

It's weird - until you posted this I was thinking that they were standard combat actions.  I don't think it would break the game if everyone had access to them for free, to be honest, but I can't certainly see the reasoning behind making them advanced actions.

Quote
An example from a previous campaign in 4e: Shooting at a dragons wings to impair it's flight. In FC that would be a Cheap Shot to flight speed. The player might be able to think of that, but it would be implied that if he hasn't taken Cheap Shot as a trick, his character wouldn't have thought of it. Is that a fair assumption, then?

Not necessarily.  A character can come up with a tactic they themselves aren't capable of performing - just as a frail old wizard can suggest that the barbarian push a boulder to start a landslide, so can the captain (or anyone else) suggest that someone more handy with a bow target specific areas on the wings to slow down the dragon.

Jackal_mkII

  • Agent
  • ***
  • Posts: 230
    • View Profile
    • Jackals at the Table
Re: Called Shots, Weakpoints and Armor
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2012, 11:34:02 PM »
It's weird - until you posted this I was thinking that they were standard combat actions.  I don't think it would break the game if everyone had access to them for free, to be honest, but I can't certainly see the reasoning behind making them advanced actions.

I thought they were standard combat actions as well, until I started looking for it. Most systems I know, with few exceptions, do that flat out so it's a bit unexpected. I kinda like it though.

Quote
Not necessarily.  A character can come up with a tactic they themselves aren't capable of performing - just as a frail old wizard can suggest that the barbarian push a boulder to start a landslide, so can the captain (or anyone else) suggest that someone more handy with a bow target specific areas on the wings to slow down the dragon.

Touche, Sir. Well put.
http://jackaldice.blogspot.com/  Noob gamer reconciles 4 years of gaming observations. Updates Wednesdays.

Mister Andersen

  • Control
  • ******
  • Posts: 12222
  • I'm leaving for a destination I still don't know
    • View Profile
Re: Called Shots, Weakpoints and Armor
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2012, 01:11:36 AM »
It's weird - until you posted this I was thinking that they were standard combat actions.  I don't think it would break the game if everyone had access to them for free, to be honest, but I can't certainly see the reasoning behind making them advanced actions.

They used to be standard actions under 2.0. Still think they should be in 3.0

Antilles

  • Mastermind
  • Control
  • *****
  • Posts: 3924
  • Do I look like a people person?
    • View Profile
Re: Called Shots, Weakpoints and Armor
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2012, 04:55:45 AM »
If I was the GM and one of my players wanted to pull off something that required cheap/called shot but didn't have it, I'd let them spend an AD to gain the trick for 1 'use' only.
"After all is said and done, more is said than done."
- Aesop
Mortality clarified in a single strike!

Crafty_Pat

  • Crafty Staff
  • Control
  • *****
  • Posts: 9816
  • We have all the time in the world.
    • View Profile
    • Crafty Games
Re: Called Shots, Weakpoints and Armor
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2012, 12:49:21 PM »
If I was the GM and one of my players wanted to pull off something that required cheap/called shot but didn't have it, I'd let them spend an AD to gain the trick for 1 'use' only.

This is fair. It's how we handle Trips and Grapples in the Saga game I play.
Patrick Kapera
Crafty Games

UPDATES/PRESS INFO
Newsletter: http://bit.ly/14FJIw7
Facebook: www.facebook.com/craftygames
Google Plus: https://plus.google.com/+Crafty-Games/
Twitter: www.twitter.com/Crafty_Games
YouTube: www.youtube.com/craftyhomeoffice

In game terms, reality is broken.

Morgenstern

  • Control
  • ******
  • Posts: 6500
    • View Profile
Re: Called Shots, Weakpoints and Armor
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2012, 08:51:04 PM »
If I was the GM and one of my players wanted to pull off something that required cheap/called shot but didn't have it, I'd let them spend an AD to gain the trick for 1 'use' only.

Yoink!
At your own pace: Do. It. Now.
How about some pie? - Heroes of the Expanse

Crafty_Pat

  • Crafty Staff
  • Control
  • *****
  • Posts: 9816
  • We have all the time in the world.
    • View Profile
    • Crafty Games
Re: Called Shots, Weakpoints and Armor
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2012, 11:41:13 PM »
For the record, I also consider this a master level design choice - which is to say, it requires master level understanding of the game to actually use. Most casual players will never use this, and those who try ultimately find themselves very frustrated - not because the rules is hard to understand but because it urges - some might say, requires - a full comprehension of the feat and advanced action catalog to "properly" employ.

Thus, with a general rule like this in play, you wind up potentially creating an 'elite class' of gamer within your group - a class that demands certain real-world attributes to join, and that not everyone will be able to join even if they want to - and those players will suddenly have power unavailable to anyone else.

Not sayin'. Just sayin'.
Patrick Kapera
Crafty Games

UPDATES/PRESS INFO
Newsletter: http://bit.ly/14FJIw7
Facebook: www.facebook.com/craftygames
Google Plus: https://plus.google.com/+Crafty-Games/
Twitter: www.twitter.com/Crafty_Games
YouTube: www.youtube.com/craftyhomeoffice

In game terms, reality is broken.

Morgenstern

  • Control
  • ******
  • Posts: 6500
    • View Profile
Re: Called Shots, Weakpoints and Armor
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2012, 12:35:38 AM »
For the record, I also consider this a master level design choice - which is to say, it requires master level understanding of the game to actually use. Most casual players will never use this, and those who try ultimately find themselves very frustrated - not because the rules is hard to understand but because it urges - some might say, requires - a full comprehension of the feat and advanced action catalog to "properly" employ.

Thus, with a general rule like this in play, you wind up potentially creating an 'elite class' of gamer within your group - a class that demands certain real-world attributes to join, and that not everyone will be able to join even if they want to - and those players will suddenly have power unavailable to anyone else.

Not sayin'. Just sayin'.

That... is a very good point.

I don't normally worry about it because I can hold 90% of the system in my head as a single managable object, but that has lead me to offer some house rules and options that are just way too unweildy for more casual players. For example the "gain 2 levels of class when you bet your life" is a pretty casual transformation to me and a show-stopping grind-to-a-halt option paralysis festival for many players. Lesson learned.

Writing that option up for use by somewhat less techincally geeky players could be made a little smoother by listing the options that can be "borrowed" and giving them a little shorthand description. A fixed list curtails the flexibility/power of the rule, but could make it much much more playable. Having a shorthand list of the advanced options and tricks, equivalent to the one-sentence description of spells before the main descriptions text begins in D&D might make the Advanced Actions more accessible in gneral.

Re-yoinked, but with an eye towards a longer, clearer explaination ;D.
At your own pace: Do. It. Now.
How about some pie? - Heroes of the Expanse