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Author Topic: Hemalurgy damage for spike removal?  (Read 209 times)
cometaryorbit
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« on: October 05, 2014, 09:55:32 PM »

It just struck me as a bit odd that all Hemalurgic spikes damage you when you remove them. In the books, some are clearly harmless to remove (Vin takes her earring out several times without noticing any pain or weakness) and some are deadly to remove (like an Inquisitor's linchpin spike).

I guess this is a simplification so there don't have to be complex rules for which spikes are fatal and which harmless?
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SirJerric
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2014, 01:49:36 AM »

In a word, yes. This is one of the many simplifications in MAG compared to the books.

My method of handling these types of things is to lean in favor of the book system whenever I think the players would prefer it. Assuming that the players aren't trying anything outrageous, at least. My players are generally good about that to date.
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Crafty_Alex
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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2014, 11:49:55 AM »

In a word, yes. This is one of the many simplifications in MAG compared to the books.

My method of handling these types of things is to lean in favor of the book system whenever I think the players would prefer it. Assuming that the players aren't trying anything outrageous, at least. My players are generally good about that to date.

That's probably best. Brandon can "cheat" whenever he likes, because, y'know, he's the author and narrative doesn't have to follow any rules other than the language it's written in...but for a game, we needed a hard and fast and simple rule to work from, otherwise the MAG would have been twice the size and half as fun to play.
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cometaryorbit
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« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2014, 03:03:47 AM »

In a word, yes. This is one of the many simplifications in MAG compared to the books.

My method of handling these types of things is to lean in favor of the book system whenever I think the players would prefer it. Assuming that the players aren't trying anything outrageous, at least. My players are generally good about that to date.

That's probably best. Brandon can "cheat" whenever he likes, because, y'know, he's the author and narrative doesn't have to follow any rules other than the language it's written in...but for a game, we needed a hard and fast and simple rule to work from, otherwise the MAG would have been twice the size and half as fun to play.

Ah, OK, makes sense.
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xadcirk
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« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2014, 10:55:44 AM »

I was looking through the 17th shard forum for a post quoting Brandon. The question came up of if it was the physical Spike or the damage to their soul web that kills people in hemalurgy and his answer was "Yes" It sticks out to me because I remember him elaborating on it a bit that if the soul is becomes untethered by the process of hemalurgy.

This makes me think that barring the use of an outside force hemalurgy disrupts investitur and would make you unable to use gold to heal your self if you're the Victim being used to make a spike. The same with pewter alomancy. They are ripping this power out of you as you try to use it. That is not going to work well.
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" What does that have to do with the Price of Steel in Elendel?" - Hood, Famous last words.
cometaryorbit
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2014, 11:57:32 PM »

This makes me think that barring the use of an outside force hemalurgy disrupts investitur and would make you unable to use gold to heal your self if you're the Victim being used to make a spike. The same with pewter alomancy. They are ripping this power out of you as you try to use it. That is not going to work well.

I think that's true - if they spike out your Gold feruchemy or Pewter allomancy, you can't use that power to heal the damage.

However, if you are left with a healing power after the spiking, it apparently could work -- if Miles' Gold allomancy was spiked out, he could use his Gold feruchemy to heal it.
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xadcirk
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2014, 02:26:07 PM »

Finally found it.

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4323-seattle-signing-report-out-101413/page-5#entry68265

Q: Hemalurgically stealing an attribute from someone is usually fatal to the donor.  Is that because of the damage to their spiritweb or from the physical damage from the spiking itself?
 
A: Umm, I would say both.

I have not been able to Find any WoB on the subject of healing Hemalurgy with fGold so if anyone has that link please share.

I also Cannot help but note that Spikes like Vins and Wax's are A) small, possessing very little Hemalurgic charge and B) de centralized. The powers they give do not affect the physical body's shape or forum.

I would expect that any spike that has to be placed in a disfiguring lethal area or that gave abilities that alter the physical body would, when removed, cause the types of Damage the books and MAG describe.

As Hemalurgy "Grafts" abilities to your soul net I would assume its got similar effects when removed to someone being Spiked to create a spike. It's removing a Piece of your soul web, A grafted Piece but a Piece nonetheless.

The real world analogy of Hemalurgy as surgery from this thread:http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4862-fgold-healing-and-hemalurgy/
Seems both apt and possibly the best way to approach the subject.
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2014, 08:26:36 PM »

I think the largest example we've yet had of spike-removal was Spook, but he wasn't exactly like that for long before he had bigger things to worry about, and then he got all healed. So not much to go on there, but at least he didn't die immediately or anything like that.

Here's the fGold healing quote:

Source:
Quote
Kurkistan:
Could Miles heal back his Allomancy if it was spiked out of him?
 
Brandon Sanderson:
No, he could not. He would no longer be an Allomancer. Also, he'd probably be dead. Smiley
 
Kurkistan:
Thanks!
 
I'd thought maybe he could just do some super-tapping from his existing Health in his goldminds (since he'd still have his Feruchemy)...
 
Brandon Sanderson:
Oh, I see what you're asking. Using Feruchemy to heal the removed portion of soul. That's actually plausible, not so different from healing other kinds of soul-wounds. If he survived, then yes, this actually might work. (That's why I get for reading the questions so quickly.)
 
Kurkistan:
Thank you! Cheesy
 
*Now to create a society of infinite Compounding Feruchemists/Allomancers/Hemalurgists in the Mistborn Adventure Game...*
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cometaryorbit
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« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2014, 12:39:30 AM »

I also Cannot help but note that Spikes like Vins and Wax's are A) small, possessing very little Hemalurgic charge and B) de centralized. The powers they give do not affect the physical body's shape or forum.

I'm not sure I agree that Vin's spike has very little Hemalurgic charge; it gives her dramatically increased Bronze ability. It doesn't affect her body shape, true, but neither does Spook's Tin spike; it's the Human Attribute spikes that are really "dehumanizing" IIRC. (Inquisitors do have different organs and stuff, but that's probably because they have to to survive the Hemalurgy at all, given the huge spikes through their brains.)
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VeretaYomen
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« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2014, 12:49:04 AM »

Vin's spike is a bit of a special case; it's probably not often that you find a piece of metal that small which carries a full Hemalurgic charge. WOB is that Wax's Hemalurgic earring is a tiny sliver of a melted down Inquisitor spike. Anyway, this rule makes a lot of sense to simplify and prevent munchkining...
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