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Author Topic: [A New Pie] Version 1.2.1  (Read 8870 times)
Morgenstern
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« Reply #105 on: November 12, 2012, 10:01:29 PM »

I was eyeballing Instant Expert as a 2/11/19 ability cycling every adventure/session/scene

That is sexy. Probably slightly underpowered for a B by itself, but a beastly cool core for the ability to build on.

Partially because you are going to want a secondary something so for those tables where adventure and session are the same thing, they still see some progression at level 11.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 10:07:40 PM by Morgenstern » Logged

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Mister Andersen
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« Reply #106 on: November 12, 2012, 10:24:15 PM »

   Instant Expert I: You absorb knowledge like a sponge, but can just as easily forget it when something new and shiny attracts your attention. Once per adventure you may spend 6 hrs of Downtime, or take a full action to spend an action die, to gain any 1 field of your choice available in the setting. You retain knowledge of this field until the end of the adventure. Once per session, a check made with this field may result in a critical success.
   Instant Expert II: Once per session you may spend 6 hrs of Downtime, or take a full action to spend an action die, to gain any 1 field of your choice available in the setting. Unless you choose to replace this bonus field with a new one, it lasts until the end of the adventure. Twice per session, a check made with this field may result in a critical success.
   Instant Expert III: Once per scene you may spend 6 hrs of Downtime, or take a full action to spend an action die, to gain any 1 field of your choice available in the setting. Unless you choose to replace this bonus field with a new one, it lasts until the end of the adventure. Thrice per session, a check made with this field may result in a critical success.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 10:28:34 PM by Mister Andersen » Logged

Morgenstern
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« Reply #107 on: November 12, 2012, 11:36:38 PM »

Bwuh? Once I've got the field, I'm kinda expecting it'll result in a critical success every time I roll a threat and confirm it...?
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« Reply #108 on: November 13, 2012, 12:53:02 AM »

Why? Would you prefer "you can't get a critical success on a check using this field except once/twice/thrice you can"?
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« Reply #109 on: November 13, 2012, 01:02:15 AM »

I think it's less the wording then it is the ability itself.

It's a straight up worse version of a 5/9/13/17 ability (Blade Practice).  You spend more time / an AD to gain something that is a 1pt Origin ability (according to Morg's earlier estimate).  2/11/19's are usually pretty butch.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 01:04:02 AM by Sletchman » Logged
Blankbeard
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« Reply #110 on: November 13, 2012, 05:59:45 AM »

Couple feat ideas

Instant Expert
"When did you become an expert on Nuclear Physics?" "Last night."
   Prerequisites: Precision 15+, at least 4 fields
   Benefit: Once per session, you may declare yourself to have studied up on a field you do not possess.  You gain that field for the rest of the session although your error range with that field increases by 1.

Omnicompetent
   Know it all?  Yes, it seems you do.
   Prerequisites: Instant Expert, Precision 17+, at least 5 fields.
   Benefit: In addition to your Instant Expert ability, you may make checks using half your ranks on any valid field even if you do not possess it. 

First one is every movie scientist ever, the second is more Dr Who.

Workable, but it makes me think they might be better off as class abilites. Instant expet, if the duration were until end of adventure, could make a nice 4/8/12/16/20 (as you say its shamefully common amongst protagonist Scientists). Omnicomtetent would be a sweet slectable in a 6/9/12/15/18 array... or the level 1 ability... In either case I'd probably tart it up a bit by calling it "Scientific Method", or maybe "Renaisance Thinker"

Hmm. Might be time to look over the earlier vesion of scientist and pick through the scraps to make a New Pie base class.The addapted keeper is strong, but there are a few tropes that could be better modeld with tools like yours.

I'd love a new scientist class.  One ability I'd like to see is a quick craft check ability (Think Kirk making a cannon to shoot the Gorn)  Oh, and bonus feats.  Even if there aren't very many of them.

If you're going to do Instant Expert as a 2/11/19, why not use the Martial Artist's ability as a template?

At levels 2,11, and 19, select one of the following abilities:
Instant Expert: Once per adventure, you may spend an hour studying to gain a field until the end of the adventure.  You may activate criticals with this field for one less action die. Also, the lower of your Grace and Precision rises by one.
Head of the Class: Pick one of your Precision based skills.  Your maximum ranks in that skill increase to your level +5 and you immediately gain 2 skill points to place in it.  The lower of your Determination and Guile rises by one.
Let me check my notes: The cost to activate errors with your Precision based skills increases by one.  When you do critically fail, you may spend a standard action doing a post-mortem to gain a temporary action die.  This die is discarded at the end of the scene if not used before then.  The lower of your fitness or awareness rises by one.

I am not good at judging the potency of the various abilities.  I always come back to the idea that there is another class that gets a bonus feat in the same slot.
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« Reply #111 on: November 13, 2012, 06:51:07 AM »

I think it's less the wording then it is the ability itself.

It's a straight up worse version of a 5/9/13/17 ability (Blade Practice).  You spend more time / an AD to gain something that is a 1pt Origin ability (according to Morg's earlier estimate).  2/11/19's are usually pretty butch.

I didn't realize they had been revised down.  Initially, the thought was that a field was most of a feat.

For some reason Renaissance Man makes me think of this ability:
Renaissance Man:  Understanding one field leads to discovery in another.  You receive an insight bonus with Profession, Expertise, and Mischief checks equal to the number of fields you have.
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« Reply #112 on: November 13, 2012, 09:45:08 AM »

I think it's less the wording then it is the ability itself.

It's a straight up worse version of a 5/9/13/17 ability (Blade Practice).  You spend more time / an AD to gain something that is a 1pt Origin ability (according to Morg's earlier estimate).  2/11/19's are usually pretty butch.

I didn't realize they had been revised down.  Initially, the thought was that a field was most of a feat.

Honestly, I'm not sure.  At all.  This thread has kind of lost me to be honest.  I'm just going off the following, which is the latest post I could find on the subject (and with his suggestion of 1 pt, to make it a 2/11/19 you'd give a field + a feat).

How many orgin points is a field worth?

Been mulling that over too. Less than 3 (I see it as a component of feats, and not the majoritiy component). Probably less than 2 by that reasoning. I'm reluctant to dig into fractions, but its probably 1 to 1.5 absolute values. Conversion of existing origins is greatly simplified by making it a flat 1 (interchangable with existing bonus focuses). It'd be a really sweet deal for 1 point...
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Morgenstern
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« Reply #113 on: November 13, 2012, 10:01:28 AM »

Honestly, I'm not sure.  At all.  This thread has kind of lost me to be honest.  I'm just going off the following, which is the latest post I could find on the subject (and with his suggestion of 1 pt, to make it a 2/11/19 you'd give a field + a feat).

Well, its more of we're deep into a sidebar.

In the fuzzy math that exists between my ears a field is about half a feat. In origin Design points that would equate to 1.5, but for convienience of creating new ones and adapting existing ones, I'm rounding down to 1 design point for Origins. The class ability being mentioned is essentially a floating field - similar in concept to a floating feat. Floaters are modestly more desirable/weighted than fixed feats (which is why you dont see them in C and D slots), but the B slot is considerably greater than a single feat, so I'm inclined to say "get a floating field every Adventure/Session/Scene (and I mean ALL the benefits of having a field, no restrictions on the number of crits) + enough other goodies to round out the value of the B slot".

I'm vectoring in on sleep, so I don't expect anything dramatic for the next 10 hours, but I'll try to calve this sidebar off as its own thread shortly Smiley. I want to re-read both previous iterations fo the Scientist. Looking back on first ed stuff has been downright bizzare.
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« Reply #114 on: November 14, 2012, 08:25:00 PM »

So, how then does the New Pie handle checks for things that don't have a field but logically require a skill check to manufacture / alter / utilise?
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« Reply #115 on: November 14, 2012, 09:11:06 PM »

Give me an example.
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« Reply #116 on: November 14, 2012, 09:18:54 PM »

Oh, let's go art -- I'm fairly certain you're familiar with the Aeon/Trinity setting, where it's fairly important for ISRAns who practice Bang, as well as anyone from Bohemia.

Cooking's another good one -- there are food gear items, but I'm not really seeing the ehecks under Expertise getting much of a workout for it
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« Reply #117 on: November 14, 2012, 09:54:08 PM »

Oh, let's go art -- I'm fairly certain you're familiar with the Aeon/Trinity setting, where it's fairly important for ISRAns who practice Bang, as well as anyone from Bohemia.

I'm guessing this art has no mechanical effect... So how is a good/successfull piece different from a bad/failed one? I'm not entirely sure what you need a random outcome for, so why roll at all? IF pieces of art can be judged by having a value, then we might be lookiing at a tradegood, in which case making it the product of an income check for whatever skill feels suitable might work, and with profession having a multiplier in straight income checks, it might be the skill of choice for an aspiring artist, without ever referencing a gear field. If the GM is feeling restrictive, having the approriate interest might be required. Adding $10,000 to the party funds by selling a great painting or by working as a bouncer are both still adding 10k to the pot, and probably take time vs. skill checks the same way. Profession does the job of putting money inthe pot better than other skills, so if you are wanting to crank art faster, load up on that.

Quote
Cooking's another good one -- there are food gear items, but I'm not really seeing the checks under Expertise getting much of a workout for it

Cooking is a sound field in any setting with a library of food gear, which Fantasycraft delivers a soilid foundation for. Evidently it needs to be put even more strongly in the text, if the use of gear is self-explanitory (and I think "you eat it" is about as primordially simple as it gets) the Expertise checks are going to be simplistic or even nonexistent. The value of a field does not have to be uniformly distributed across the three skills.

Actually, I think that "fields" are probably going to have to be named "Gear Fields" to further cement their function.
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« Reply #118 on: November 14, 2012, 11:12:39 PM »

I'm guessing this art has no mechanical effect... So how is a good/successfull piece different from a bad/failed one? I'm not entirely sure what you need a random outcome for, so why roll at all? [/url]

Because just as with anything else you create, you can stuff it up -- a Counterfeit check for instance is definitely roll worthy

IF pieces of art can be judged by having a value, then we might be lookiing at a tradegood, in which case making it the product of an income check for whatever skill feels suitable might work, and with profession having a multiplier in straight income checks, it might be the skill of choice for an aspiring artist, without ever referencing a gear field. If the GM is feeling restrictive, having the approriate interest might be required.

I'd think an interest would be an absolute must.

Quote
Evidently it needs to be put even more strongly in the text, if the use of gear is self-explanitory (and I think "you eat it" is about as primordially simple as it gets) the Expertise checks are going to be simplistic or even nonexistent. The value of a field does not have to be uniformly distributed across the three skills.

I dunno, being applicable across all three Precision skills would seem to be a key definition of a field vs an interest. Even if that means shifting Assembly and Repair out of Profession and dropping a Knowledge check into it -- after all, if the field-based Income check exists alongside the standard downtime one, it makes sense that having a relevant field should do something similar with "do I know stuff?" checks.

Quote
Actually, I think that "fields" are probably going to have to be named "Gear Fields" to further cement their function.

Possibly. Because this just occured to me as an amusing field:

   Communications: Covers putting thoughts and concepts into tangiable form. Expertise would be used for translating one language into another (Operate), and engaging in a fast-paced debate (Maneuver). Profession would be use for used for composing songs (Assembly), salvage someone's reputation (Repair), and writing speeches for politicians (Income). Mischief would be used for embedding hidden messages that censors are oblivious to (Bypass), engage in damage limitation (Disable), immitate others (Counterfeit), and cause others to misspeak (Sabotage).

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« Reply #119 on: November 15, 2012, 12:29:43 AM »

I think part of the problem is that Mischief has a very strong identity (Misuse in useful ways) and so does Profession (Make things for fun and profit) but Expertise is lacking that unless the field deals with vehicles where the Maneuver check gives the skill an identity (Use and Drive).

I don't know if the answer to that is to pull the repair check into expertise as I've asked about before.  For cooking I can see a salvage/repair being the equivalent of "dumpster diving"  that seems independent enough of being a good chef to belong in a different skill.  In any case, food for thought (heh).

Quote
I dunno, being applicable across all three Precision skills would seem to be a key definition of a field vs an interest. Even if that means shifting Assembly and Repair out of Profession and dropping a Knowledge check into it -- after all, if the field-based Income check exists alongside the standard downtime one, it makes sense that having a relevant field should do something similar with "do I know stuff?" checks.

Weaponcraft/Armorcraft are quintessential fields that have no use case.  Since having an interest grants a +1 with knowledge checks, I can see a field giving an even larger bonus.

Quote
I'd think an interest would be an absolute must.

I think you're (mostly) right here.  With fields, I am signifying what I think is important in the campaign.  Interests let a player signal what is important to his character.  If the players comes up with a plot that hinges on their ability to pass off a fake Picasso as a real one, the guy who took Abstract Painting as an interest is going to have a very good day.  I'm happy to say he's the perfect person for the job.  It's still not important enough to warrant a field though.

Quote
Possibly. Because this just occured to me as an amusing field:

   Communications: Covers putting thoughts and concepts into tangiable form. Expertise would be used for translating one language into another (Operate), and engaging in a fast-paced debate (Maneuver). Profession would be use for used for composing songs (Assembly), salvage someone's reputation (Repair), and writing speeches for politicians (Income). Mischief would be used for embedding hidden messages that censors are oblivious to (Bypass), engage in damage limitation (Disable), immitate others (Counterfeit), and cause others to misspeak (Sabotage).

Sounds like a favor based field.  On the plus side, that guy who follows the party around singing songs about their deeds is finally doing something useful - he makes party Reputation.
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