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Author Topic: Rules Clarifications  (Read 212 times)
Kadrok
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« on: June 05, 2014, 12:43:33 AM »

Three questions....


1. If a Mistborn has the 'Tug Emotion' stunt for Zinc and the 'Push Emotion' stunt for Brass (which each give a +1 to Charm rolls), and is burning both, does the Mistborn gain a +2 to Charm? My intuition is yes, given that being able to burn both those metals in that subtle way should be able to benefit each other, but I wanted to be sure.

2. In a similar vein, if a Mistborn has the 'Steelrunning' stunt for Steel, the 'Ironslide' stunt for Iron, and the 'Extreme Speed' stunt for Pewter (which each allow the Allomancer to take 2 free steps without penalty), can the Mistborn move 6 steps for free in one beat? Again my intuition tells me yes, given that pushing off one's environment should only add to the speed already gained by pewter, and Ironslide isn't that dissimilar... certainly not dissimilar in a way that would detract from the other speed increases...

3. This one is to do with something mentioned in the Terris Supplement:
Quote
Terrisman’s Resolve (Terris only): Your Willpower permanently increases by 2, and you may recover Willpower during a Short or Long Breather without sitting the Breather out (see “Recovery” on page 189 of the Mistborn Adventure Game).
Oookay, but there's nothing in the Recovery section that says you'd need to sit the breather out. If anything the text seems to imply that recovery happens automatically over those breathers:

Quote
Characters naturally recover 1 of each Resilience per day. Certain magic
— particularly Pewter Allomancy and Feruchemical goldminds — can accelerate
this process (see pages 301 and 357).
Additionally, during a Short Breather, a character…
• …recovers half of any lost Health, rounded up, though only if he or she sits
the Breather out (doing nothing of note beyond resting).
...recovers half of any lost Reputation or Willpower, rounded up. This occurs
whether he or she sits the Breather out or not.
In a Long Breather, a character recovers all lost Health, Reputation, and
Willpower.
Even if we extend the phrase "though only if he or she sits the Breather out (doing nothing of note beyond resting)" to Long Breathers, that phrase only applies to Health, not Willpower, which has the "this occurs whether he or she sits the Breather out or not" addition.
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Kadrok
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« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2014, 01:41:29 AM »

So... yeah...
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Dreamstreamer
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« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2014, 10:49:35 AM »

Good questions! Here's what I think.

1. If a Mistborn has the 'Tug Emotion' stunt for Zinc and the 'Push Emotion' stunt for Brass (which each give a +1 to Charm rolls), and is burning both, does the Mistborn gain a +2 to Charm? My intuition is yes, given that being able to burn both those metals in that subtle way should be able to benefit each other, but I wanted to be sure.

I'm a little torn here. On one hand, the player paid the advancements for the stunts. On the other, both mention the character subtly messing with the emotions of *everyone* around them, and I don't think the same effect should get stacked. For me, doing both at the same time would cancel the subtle nature of the stunts and lose the extra charm die.

2. In a similar vein, if a Mistborn has the 'Steelrunning' stunt for Steel, the 'Ironslide' stunt for Iron, and the 'Extreme Speed' stunt for Pewter (which each allow the Allomancer to take 2 free steps without penalty), can the Mistborn move 6 steps for free in one beat? Again my intuition tells me yes, given that pushing off one's environment should only add to the speed already gained by pewter, and Ironslide isn't that dissimilar... certainly not dissimilar in a way that would detract from the other speed increases...

For me, they wouldn't stack. I might be convinced to add one additional step for some combination of them, but it had better have a really good narrative reason! Extreme Speed says the character moves around 40 mph; Steel and Iron mention moving objects at around 100 mph, and you have to be within 100 paces (Medium Range) to even detect what you want to interact with. (Further, with the right stunts.) They all provide the same benefit: moving two steps instead of one as part of another action, or three steps when going full tilt. I already don't usually allow stacking the same effect (see above), but in this case, I don't see how combining them could be faster. Steel or Iron have a higher limit for their respective speeds, but the effect is the same in game terms. Maybe if the Long Range and Increased Velocity stunts are also known? I'd also be a little worried about stopping after traveling at those speeds. Pewter could probably help with that, I suppose.

Basically, I figure it already allows moving a distance of up to 900 paces (from Sight to Long) while still retaining an action. What you suggest would be moving from Sight to Touch and still getting to act. As a combat beat is typically around 5-10 seconds, that sounds absolutely insane!

3. This one is to do with something mentioned in the Terris Supplement:
Quote
Terrisman’s Resolve (Terris only): Your Willpower permanently increases by 2, and you may recover Willpower during a Short or Long Breather without sitting the Breather out (see “Recovery” on page 189 of the Mistborn Adventure Game).
Oookay, but there's nothing in the Recovery section that says you'd need to sit the breather out. If anything the text seems to imply that recovery happens automatically over those breathers[.]

Yep, looks like everything after the comma should be removed.
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Crafty_Alex
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« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2014, 04:44:11 PM »

Three questions....


1. If a Mistborn has the 'Tug Emotion' stunt for Zinc and the 'Push Emotion' stunt for Brass (which each give a +1 to Charm rolls), and is burning both, does the Mistborn gain a +2 to Charm? My intuition is yes, given that being able to burn both those metals in that subtle way should be able to benefit each other, but I wanted to be sure.

I'd say yes. While it's cheaper than bumping your Charm stat, you have to have both metals burning to gain the benefit - plus you paid for the Advancements.

Quote
2. In a similar vein, if a Mistborn has the 'Steelrunning' stunt for Steel, the 'Ironslide' stunt for Iron, and the 'Extreme Speed' stunt for Pewter (which each allow the Allomancer to take 2 free steps without penalty), can the Mistborn move 6 steps for free in one beat? Again my intuition tells me yes, given that pushing off one's environment should only add to the speed already gained by pewter, and Ironslide isn't that dissimilar... certainly not dissimilar in a way that would detract from the other speed increases...

On this one, I would say no for 2 reasons: 1) both Extreme Speed and Steel Running use the exact same text later in ("allows you to move as fast as a galloping race horse (about 40 mph)") which indicates they both have upper limits - it makes no sense they would stack, and 2) game balance - a Steelmind using Feruchemist must spend 50 charges of physical speed to move 6 Steps in a turn, which is a vastly higher cost than the theoretical Mistborn who could do the same every turn with a single vial.

My intent was not that they would stack, and it certainly shows in Extreme Speed and Steel Running they are not supposed to compound. In theory, Ironslide might allow stacking (since there's no limit, and a Push plus a Pull could in theory let you move even faster), but I wouldn't allow them at my table, just for personal game balance preference, nor would I knock anyone who did the same.

Quote
3. This one is to do with something mentioned in the Terris Supplement:
Quote
Terrisman’s Resolve (Terris only): Your Willpower permanently increases by 2, and you may recover Willpower during a Short or Long Breather without sitting the Breather out (see “Recovery” on page 189 of the Mistborn Adventure Game).
Oookay, but there's nothing in the Recovery section that says you'd need to sit the breather out. If anything the text seems to imply that recovery happens automatically over those breathers:

Quote
Characters naturally recover 1 of each Resilience per day. Certain magic
— particularly Pewter Allomancy and Feruchemical goldminds — can accelerate
this process (see pages 301 and 357).
Additionally, during a Short Breather, a character…
• …recovers half of any lost Health, rounded up, though only if he or she sits
the Breather out (doing nothing of note beyond resting).
...recovers half of any lost Reputation or Willpower, rounded up. This occurs
whether he or she sits the Breather out or not.
In a Long Breather, a character recovers all lost Health, Reputation, and
Willpower.
Even if we extend the phrase "though only if he or she sits the Breather out (doing nothing of note beyond resting)" to Long Breathers, that phrase only applies to Health, not Willpower, which has the "this occurs whether he or she sits the Breather out or not" addition.

You got me. My mistake.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 04:45:42 PM by Crafty_Alex » Logged

Dreamstreamer
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« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2014, 06:26:36 PM »


I'd say yes. While it's cheaper than bumping your Charm stat, you have to have both metals burning to gain the benefit - plus you paid for the Advancements.

Related, would you also allow the player to double up on dice used in an emotional assault, such as when flaring Zinc and Brass at the same time? That would allow a starting Mistborn to max out with ten dice (normally four ranks for each metal, raised to 5 by flaring) against the Spirit dice of an opponent, while targeting Willpower. I hope the opponent brought a Smoker along for protection!
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Kadrok
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« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2014, 06:31:31 PM »

1. If a Mistborn has the 'Tug Emotion' stunt for Zinc and the 'Push Emotion' stunt for Brass blah blah blah
I'd say yes. While it's cheaper than bumping your Charm stat, you have to have both metals burning to gain the benefit - plus you paid for the Advancements.
Hooray!
Quote from: Crafty Alex
Quote from: Kadrok
2. In a similar vein, if a Mistborn has the 'Steelrunning' stunt for Steel, the 'Ironslide' stunt for Iron, and the 'Extreme Speed' stunt for Pewter blah blah blah
On this one, I would say no for 2 reasons: 1) both Extreme Speed and Steel Running use the exact same text later in ("allows you to move as fast as a galloping race horse (about 40 mph)") which indicates they both have upper limits - it makes no sense they would stack...
I disagree. I can't see how they wouldn't be able to work technically (given my... admittedly vague understanding of physics) however that is almost completely irrelevant because of...
Quote from: Crafty Alex
2) game balance - a Steelmind using Feruchemist must spend 50 charges of physical speed to move 6 Steps in a turn, which is a vastly higher cost than the theoretical Mistborn who could do the same every turn with a single vial...I wouldn't allow them at my table, just for personal game balance preference, nor would I knock anyone who did the same.
As much as my gut tells me it would be technically possible, I find the game balance argument very compelling, although it does make me sad that there is virtually no reason for a Mistborn to gain all of the movement enhancing stunts (beyond having a backup for when metals run out).

Quote from: Crafty Alex
Quote from: Kadrok
3. This one is to do with something mentioned in the Terris Supplement...
You got me. My mistake.
Not my intention to "get" you... human error strikes us all. I'm thankful for the work you guys do, and am very much looking forward to seeing what we get to play with next. The Terris elements, what I've had the chance to play with thus far, are very fun... I only just noticed the signal animal prop in there, and now I'm trying to think of situations in which to use them (Communication between forces has always been a bit of an issue... I remember wanting a signal animal earlier in a campaign and lo, here they are!)
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Crafty_Alex
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« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2014, 07:10:32 PM »


I'd say yes. While it's cheaper than bumping your Charm stat, you have to have both metals burning to gain the benefit - plus you paid for the Advancements.

Related, would you also allow the player to double up on dice used in an emotional assault, such as when flaring Zinc and Brass at the same time? That would allow a starting Mistborn to max out with ten dice (normally four ranks for each metal, raised to 5 by flaring) against the Spirit dice of an opponent, while targeting Willpower. I hope the opponent brought a Smoker along for protection!

If it were narratively feasible and the Mistborn in question had an intimate knowledge of the target's motivations and impulses, I suppose so. Though I would say that most Rioters and Soothers Push/Pull multiple emotions as need be already and that they would suffer a certain amount of diminishing returns (since flaring either type of emotional Allomancy is already is absolutely obvious and creates overwhelming sentiment). From a game balance perspective, again, I would be concerned about a Mistborn using 10 dice on anything out of the gate...but it's your game, ultimately.
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