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Author Topic: I don't think I play Fantasy Craft anymore  (Read 255 times)
Deral
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« on: August 13, 2014, 10:31:06 PM »

-and I mean it in the best way possible.

My experience with Crafty started with Spycraft 2.0 and I loved Fantasy Craft before it even hit the shelves. I used to run campaigns in homebrewed one-campaign worlds, but my players and I wanted something more persistent- so I sat down and put together a small conglomeration of kingdoms in a more-or-less simple setting.
Five-or-so years later that setting has grown significantly- wildly out of control- it started with a game here or there fleshing out more bits and pieces, but the rules were augmented and altered just as much, mostly in line with the sort of games and traits my players liked or desired. Now, what is it? 12 PDFs comprising some 700 pages from rules to fluff- much of it is brand new but some of the rules are borrowed from the great ideas that show up on these boards, and some just rewritten to accommodate dozens of tiny house rules; the entire Skills section reappears in the setting's books, and all the FC feats from all their books are reincorporated into the Feats chapter- everything is built on a significantly different scale of balance (to the point where I pretty much come to the forums to give advice or guidance, because my work doesn't mesh well with others' and that of others often takes a good chunk of adaptation to fit)
I use the FC core book only for NPC generation, the Combat chapter, and the core Classes- but I don't consider any of this an improvement of the system; if my group enjoys it more, I'd say it's a testament to the system- Everything is clear and understandable- nothing is nebulous, vague, or confusing, and I was able to pick up FC from the get go and put it to use. It's efficacy as a toolkit between that ease of use and the foundation that it sets forth isn't something I want to understate.

So that felt a bit stream-of-consciousness. I feel like I've given the Crafty guys a bit of hell (particularly regarding that one aggravating release), but they've really made an awesome system that I'm going to use for a long time, even if I only use a fraction of its original text. Anybody else out there find themselves carried away with FC?
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Khaalis
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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2014, 02:09:21 AM »

Unfortunately I'm in the opposite boat. I love FC and it has done wonders for allowing me to give mechanics to my homebrew setting in ways other games haven't. However, the majority of my gaming group (same group for some 20 odd years now) simply has lost interested in even looking at FC since it appears to be a dead line now. They were pretty burnt by the lack of that "one big release", and now that Crafty has said they are moving on to other things, they'd prefer to focus on a more "living" system. Its sad because FC is great, but this group simply wants a system that is more than a single book with no future support. Sad
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Medwyn
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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2014, 06:54:00 AM »

FantasyCraft/MasterCraft has become my default game system, albeit with homebrew and forum add ons.

I have to agree with what Deral's saying. My players are able to understand and build surprisingly similar characters and yet take them in surprising separate directions.

I've picked up everything Crafty (except the Spellbound due to lack of funds at the time) and am grateful for the forums to have the ability to tinker and reflect on varying ideas in a constructive manner.

I'm about to plunge into another adaptation of a new Fading Suns campaign this time using New Pie Mastercraft and my players are chomping at the bit to rip into this new game.
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Deral
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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2014, 10:10:59 AM »

Unfortunately I'm in the opposite boat. I love FC and it has done wonders for allowing me to give mechanics to my homebrew setting in ways other games haven't. However, the majority of my gaming group (same group for some 20 odd years now) simply has lost interested in even looking at FC since it appears to be a dead line now. They were pretty burnt by the lack of that "one big release", and now that Crafty has said they are moving on to other things, they'd prefer to focus on a more "living" system. Its sad because FC is great, but this group simply wants a system that is more than a single book with no future support. Sad

I can understand this sentiment as well, and maybe that's part of what drove me to where I am now- it's a system I can easily expand on myself, either through converting rules or starting from the ground up.
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Mutt
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2014, 05:43:49 PM »

While I'm not quite at that level of creation and homebrew yet, I know the feeling of using the Mastercraft system to do even more than expected. For instance, running a Fire Emblem themed game with friends; the system just works so well for imitating the series' tropes, and even some of the mechanics.


That said, I am interested in seeing what other things have been created by you. Weapons and non-Species feats especially; those seem like some of the toughest things to homebrew and balance around the pre-existing examples. Would you be willing to share those, or at least some of them, in PDF format? (My friends are interested, but for some reason prefer PDFs to looking at plain words on a screen  Roll Eyes )
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Deral
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2014, 04:28:51 PM »

That said, I am interested in seeing what other things have been created by you. Weapons and non-Species feats especially; those seem like some of the toughest things to homebrew and balance around the pre-existing examples. Would you be willing to share those, or at least some of them, in PDF format? (My friends are interested, but for some reason prefer PDFs to looking at plain words on a screen  Roll Eyes )

I'm all for sharing stuff, but weapons are a tough one for me to share without it being a torrent of information- it seemed to me that characters either just use whatever weapon works or their weapons are an iconic part of their character's style. So I still let characters take weapons from the lists in FC, but I broke down the weapons into Generic variants, where the classes for Edged weapons are Axe, Rapier, Dagger, Sword, Greatsword, Polearm, and Spear- you pick the type and build the weapon using a point buy system with different options available based on the class of weapon you're building. From there, all the descriptive details of the weapon are up to the player.

Feats are easier- though they'll be powerful feats compared to standard FC- but I don't have any on-hand in PDF format, and my current PDF has all the FC/AC feats (though many are rewritten) and some feats that aren't mine (Morg's Kensai and Arcane-Arms trees come to mind, I'm sure there are a handful more)
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Mutt
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2014, 04:39:36 PM »

I'm all for sharing stuff, but weapons are a tough one for me to share without it being a torrent of information- it seemed to me that characters either just use whatever weapon works or their weapons are an iconic part of their character's style. So I still let characters take weapons from the lists in FC, but I broke down the weapons into Generic variants, where the classes for Edged weapons are Axe, Rapier, Dagger, Sword, Greatsword, Polearm, and Spear- you pick the type and build the weapon using a point buy system with different options available based on the class of weapon you're building. From there, all the descriptive details of the weapon are up to the player.
Ahhh, I see. In that case, nevermind about the weapons.
Quote
Feats are easier- though they'll be powerful feats compared to standard FC- but I don't have any on-hand in PDF format, and my current PDF has all the FC/AC feats (though many are rewritten) and some feats that aren't mine (Morg's Kensai and Arcane-Arms trees come to mind, I'm sure there are a handful more)
I do not mind them being more powerful, I would simply like to see how other people create feats and possibly nab some ideas off of them. I've only made one feat chain so far, and it's a little... eh, iffy.
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Deral
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« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2014, 07:09:30 PM »

Quote
Feats are easier- though they'll be powerful feats compared to standard FC- but I don't have any on-hand in PDF format, and my current PDF has all the FC/AC feats (though many are rewritten) and some feats that aren't mine (Morg's Kensai and Arcane-Arms trees come to mind, I'm sure there are a handful more)
I do not mind them being more powerful, I would simply like to see how other people create feats and possibly nab some ideas off of them. I've only made one feat chain so far, and it's a little... eh, iffy.

Some aspects of feat writing just take experience; the more you write the more solid your understanding of how you want them balanced will become. It definitely took me a lot of writes and rewrites before I had a good grasp of what I wanted.
Early on when I would write a feat or feat chain I would start with my idea and try to figure out how to mimic it with the rules- this would usually start by stripping the idea down to it's most basic effects "A Hadoken is really just a way of hitting a guy over there" / "Here are the things a vampire should be able to do" / "These are the things a quip-y fencer from the movies does in combat in FC terms" and so on, throwing any concept of balance to the wind- then I start to trim them down, streamline the abilities, and compare the sets of abilities to the power level of other (similar) feats- if it seemed too weak to fill a chain, then maybe it could be streamlined into one feat, or if it was far too powerful, maybe it would be better suited as the heart of an Expert Class- I was/am much more interested in putting together abilities that empower players and are cool (a core tenet of FantasyCraft, I feel).

Failing that, core FC species feats are at least built on a foundation pretty close to the Talent/Specialty points- 2-2.5 points for a not-first-level-only, first tier feat, if I recall correctly, then 2.5-3 for second tier, and 3-3.5 for third (someone will surely correct those numbers if I'm off in remembering)- that's a good baseline as well.

But really what it comes down to is that, if you're running it, it's your game- you don't want to give one player an unfair advantage over the others, but if you think it's balanced for the way your games are run/played, then it's probably just fine.

and because I'm much more interested in abilities that empower and are cool (a core tenant of FantasyCraft, I feel), as I start looking at how to streamline those abilities, to trim them down and make them more effective,
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Mutt
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2014, 03:55:01 AM »

I don't mean to sound pushy or rude, but... if it is alright, would it be okay for me to request seeing some of those feats or classes? I really am interested to see what kind of stuff has already been created, and thus able to be admired.
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Deral
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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2014, 04:12:08 AM »

I don't mean to sound pushy or rude, but... if it is alright, would it be okay for me to request seeing some of those feats or classes? I really am interested to see what kind of stuff has already been created, and thus able to be admired.
You don't sound pushy or rude- I really don't have any problem putting things up, I just don't have anything in a readily sharable PDF format, and it'd be a random guess what I'd throw into one if I made one. When I get back in from work today I'll try to throw together a list or something easily readable and then maybe you can give me an idea what you'd like to see.
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Mutt
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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2014, 04:28:09 AM »

Sounds fair to me!
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Deral
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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2014, 06:13:37 PM »

I don't mean to sound pushy or rude, but... if it is alright, would it be okay for me to request seeing some of those feats or classes? I really am interested to see what kind of stuff has already been created, and thus able to be admired.
Feats and Classes...
Well, I sat down and eyeballed feats- quickly weeded out the FC/AC feats that have been rebalanced or rewritten, then pulled anything that relies on variant rules (gear and crafting changes, new gear, a modified variation of Morg's Desperate Struggle, extremely high level feats, or grouped feats (we don't have Axe or Sword basics, but Edged Basics, with feats based on styles)) or feats that rely on those rules- well, it thinned out faster than I expected- still, here are a couple melee combat style feat chains:

Breaker: I tried to convert the Grunt Spycraft 2.0 class to FC, it worked OK but came out pretty boring, so I changed it into a feat chain (I took out a line from each of these feats, in my setting these all come with "Special: This feat may be taken as a Ranged Combat feat, if it is, replace any instances of Melee with Ranged")

Breaker Basics
Regardless of how you speak, no one doubts that you carry a big stick.
Prerequisites:Overpowering Strike Trick
Benefit: You may use Massive weapons regardless of your Strength score, and if your Strength is 15 or higher, you are considered 1 size category larger for the Massive quality.
Also, you gain a trick:
Every Ounce (Two-Handed Attack Trick): Make a single Standard Attack as a full action, this attack gains a bonus to damage equal to two times your Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, or Wisdom modifier.

Breaker Mastery
When you knock an enemy to the ground, you send them 6 feet under
Prerequisites: Breaker Basics
Benefit: The Large upgrade no longer confers an Error Range penalty for you, also, you gain a trick:
Dead to Rights (Two-Handed Attack Trick): If the target fails their save against the Massive quality, you deal normal damage as well as 1d4 directly to wounds, if the attack also beats the target's defense by 10, this changes to 2d4. You may use this trick a number of times per combat equal to your Melee Combat Feats.

Breaker Supremacy
Your training has built you into an impenetrable wall.
Prerequisites: Breaker Mastery
Benefit: Your Strength and Constitution each increase by 1, also, you gain a stance:
Breaker (Stance): You gain Stress and Subdual resistance equal to your Constitution modifier and add your Wisdom modifier to Damage. Also, you cannot be sprawled or targeted with Disarm, Distract or Parry actions. However, you may only take 5-ft steps while in this stance.

Duelist: Influenced by every instance of duelists I was able to think of- These carry the same Special rider as Breaker

Duelist Basics
A gentleman's game, no doubt
Prerequisites: Parry Trick
Benefit: When you make a successful Anticipate action while wielding only a single one-handed melee weapon, your target is also considered flanked until the start of your next Initiative Count. Also, you gain a trick:
I Hate To Kill You (One-Handed Melee Attack Trick): Before making this attack, you may choose to lower your damage after DR and Resistances to 1, even if you would do no damage. If you do, you gain a +2 bonus to hit and after the attack gain a morale bonus to Defense equal to one-half the damage penalty (rounded down). If you successfully do this four consecutive times in a row to the same target, you gain a related Clue.

Duelist Mastery
...In which an unreadable expression carries you far...
Prerequisites: Duelist Basics
Benefit: Once per round, when you make a successful Distract check, you immediately gain a free attack at a -2 penalty to hit, also, you gain a trick:
Fatal Slip (Taunt Trick): If you succeed and your target attacks you in melee, you may make a free attack immediately before their attack triggers, the target is flat-footed against this attack, and with a hit the damage is doubled.

Duelist Supremacy
...And an unbeatable wit makes you untouchable.
Prerequisites:Duelist Mastery
Benefit:Your Dexterity and Intelligence each increase by 1. Also, you gain a stance:
Dueling Stance (Stance): While wielding only a single one-handed melee weapon, you may add your Intelligence modifier to damage, skill checks, and Reflex saves. You may only move with 5ft steps and Skill checks while in this stance.


Joint Strike: These are Basic Combat feats, that are in a sense kind of like a different style of Misdirection B/M/S- we play a game with mid-late 1800s era technology, so firearms are a more common, but these still work with melee weapons:

Joint Strike Basics
“Whenever you're ready...”
Prerequisites: Tactics 4+ Ranks
Benefit: When you make an attack triggered by a Readied Action, you deal an extra die of Sneak Attack Damage, also, you gain a trick:
   Unified Strike (Readied Attack Trick): When you ready an attack triggered by the attack of an ally, the two actions happen simultaneously, each gaining a +3 bonus to their Threat Range.

Joint Strike Mastery
“...take your shot...”
Prerequisites: Joint Strike Basics
Benefit: When you use your Unified Strike trick to target the same adversary and either or both of you roll a threat, it may be activated for 1 fewer action dice (minimum 0). Also, if another ally readies with the same trigger as your Unified Strike, they gain its benefits as well (maximum 1 extra ally per 4 bonus of Tactics you have).

Joint Strike Supremacy
“...I'll follow through”
Prerequisites: Joint Strike Mastery
Benefit: Your Readied Attacks deal 1 additional die of sneak attack damage (total 2). Also, your allies may gain your Sneak Attack damage in place of their own when taking part in your Unified Strike.

Exotic Style: This is an unusual one and a little more insight into what a lot of our combat feats look like (feats with lists of options like Elemental Heritage are a fair amount more common in our setup, but I don't penalize feats for offering multiple choices) - This one is just something I put together to fill all the niche fighting styles I didn't feel were well represented by the feats and options available, to make them as viable as anything else-

Exotic Style
You take advantage of a lesser known style
Benefit: Choose one of the following styles, gaining the listed benefits:
•Ambidexterity: When you wield two weapons of different sizes that offer no guard bonus, you gain a +1 bonus to defense and a +2 on tricks and effects that grant multiple attacks.
•Dirty Fighting: When you make a ranged attack immediately following an unarmed attack or vice versa, the target of your second attack becomes flat-footed.
•Rapier and Pistol: Any ranged attack you make gains a bonus to its threat range equal to the number of successful melee attacks you've made in the same round. Also, when you wield a ranged weapon while wielding a melee weapon, it counts as melee for feats, stances, and effects (but not tricks).
•Sword and Fist: While wielding a single one-handed weapon and nothing else, you may make a free unarmed attack against any target you hit with two melee attacks in the same round.
•Twirling Death: When you  use a double weapon to successfully disarm or trip or activate a critical hit, you gain a free attack against another adjacent opponent with the other end of the weapon, if you hurled that weapon, you can hit an opponent adjacent to your target.
•War Painter: You may apply a poison or oil of ether to a weapon as a free action, and a single use lasts for 1 additional hit or effects 1 additional piece of ammunition.


I have a handful of base classes-
Primer - Based on Witchers from the polish book series/video game series - you can find that one revamped here: http://www.crafty-games.com/forum/index.php?topic=7777.0
War Mage - My attempt at a cliche gish class
Dervish - Unarmored version of the soldier
Archivist - Divine Skill-based class
Champion - Not to be confused with the FC class, but similar core concept-> Divine Martial class
Evangelist - Divine Talker with Aura-like abilities
Inquisitor - Much less friendly Divine Talker (again not to be confused with the FC class)

A bunch of Expert Classes- their specifics have changed a lot since my old post, but the list of names/concepts has only gotten smaller, as I've moved more toward Master Classes to represent high tier organizations and niche concepts

Master Classes - 32 of these, but effectively every single one touches on some aspect of house rules, and practically all of them are setting specific, so these might not be as interesting to onlookers

« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 09:18:08 PM by Deral » Logged
Mutt
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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2014, 06:49:59 PM »

I really like the Breaker chain and the Exotic Style feat. As for classes, I am definitely interested in the Archivist, Dervish, and Evangelist, if that is alright with you! I rather enjoyed the Primer; one of my friends is playing one in a game, actually.
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