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Author Topic: Scout core ability  (Read 1747 times)
Atr
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« on: September 26, 2012, 11:32:05 AM »

Hi,

I would like to know what do you think about the terrain feats and the Scout's core ability.
In my opinion when you create a Scout it's pretty likely that your core ability will be useless. You will have to chose a terrain feat as your level 1 feat, and even then, several are not shareable. (Animal partner can't be gained as temporary, horde basics is already a party feat...)

So, what do you people think?
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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2012, 02:53:36 PM »

I respectfully disagree. The scout in my group has Night Fighting, and that has gone a long way with the party. Pathfinder Basics is also quite good. (I can see Sneak Attack Resistance 5 being very handy). Granted the selection is a bit small at first level, but at higher levels the benefits that could be granted can be significant. (You could also convert/scratchbuild your own Terrain Feats for your game).  Smiley
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aegis
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2012, 02:55:11 PM »

It's mostly meant for the Pathfinder Basics feat, and then it works perfectly, because it has no prerequisites and the increased travel speed really becomes useful (since the whole group can now travel faster). Night fighting isn't a bad choice either.
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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2012, 04:03:11 PM »

Yeah, Night Fighting really is a big one. I wouldn't discount the Coordinated Attack/Move/Strike chain for the enterprising Scout, either. I can think of a number of at-table instances where it would have been huge if the entire party could have simply gone to cover and handed the Soldier 5 extra attacks every round.

Coordinated Attack is one of those feats that looks a little underwhelming at first (especially for feat-light non-combat classes), but when the whole party's suddenly got it, whoa. And a Scout who's got the other two Coordinated feats can make things even crazier.
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Morganti
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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2012, 04:22:34 PM »

Yeah, Night Fighting really is a big one. I wouldn't discount the Coordinated Attack/Move/Strike chain for the enterprising Scout, either. I can think of a number of at-table instances where it would have been huge if the entire party could have simply gone to cover and handed the Soldier 5 extra attacks every round.

Coordinated Attack is one of those feats that looks a little underwhelming at first (especially for feat-light non-combat classes), but when the whole party's suddenly got it, whoa. And a Scout who's got the other two Coordinated feats can make things even crazier.
Doesn't quite work like that, since you can only give 1 team mate a feat.  Which might be why its underwhelming.
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2012, 05:28:07 PM »

Quote from: Core book
Once per scene as a free action, you may temporarily grant your teammates 1 of your Terrain feats until the end of the scene.

Note the s at the end, the core ability does indeed give the feat to all your teammates.
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2012, 05:52:35 PM »

Quote from: Core book
Once per scene as a free action, you may temporarily grant your teammates 1 of your Terrain feats until the end of the scene.

Note the s at the end, the core ability does indeed give the feat to all your teammates.

This is correct - your entire team gets the chosen feat.
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2012, 05:53:04 PM »

when your eyes transpose that number 1 around... >.>
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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2012, 11:23:52 PM »

Hi,

I would like to know what do you think about the terrain feats and the Scout's core ability.
In my opinion when you create a Scout it's pretty likely that your core ability will be useless. You will have to chose a terrain feat as your level 1 feat, and even then, several are not shareable. (Animal partner can't be gained as temporary, horde basics is already a party feat...)

So, what do you people think?

The same could be said for other classes, like a Keeper without a Basic Skill Mastery feat or a Captain without a Basic Combat feat.  But it would seem you have already identified the problem which means you can easily avoid it.  Yes, the core ability could do nothing if you choose to take feats that don't have an effect when shared.  That means the ability is really only useless if you choose to make it so.  Even some of the "useless" feats could still be handy if your group ever splits up.

I really like the feat sharing abilities as it encourages teamwork tactics.  I also like that using the ability is a free action which means you can grab a handful of potentially useful feats and then invoke whichever one will be most useful at the time it becomes most useful.

The one I always wanted to try was setting an ambush and giving Battlefield Trickery to everyone.  With a successful ambush, you can likely cripple all of your opponents before the battle even starts.
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« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2012, 03:32:43 AM »

[The same could be said for other classes, like a Keeper without a Basic Skill Mastery feat or a Captain without a Basic Combat feat.  [...]

The difference I see is the number of feats available. I also like this kind of abilities, but I think we need more Terrain feats.

Coordinated Attack is one of those feats that looks a little underwhelming at first (especially for feat-light non-combat classes), but when the whole party's suddenly got it, whoa. And a Scout who's got the other two Coordinated feats can make things even crazier.

Uhm... I think you're right. It's much more usefull I initially thought.

One question related to this, can you share a mastery or supremacy feat to someone who has not the basics one? And, if not, that's also good for coordinated attack feat chain or even for any feat with another one as a prerequisite?

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« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2012, 05:25:21 AM »

One question related to this, can you share a mastery or supremacy feat to someone who has not the basics one? And, if not, that's also good for coordinated attack feat chain or even for any feat with another one as a prerequisite?

No, you can only share a feat with someone who meets the prerequisites (in this case the Basics feat).  However, one temporary feat can meet the prerequisites for another, so that, for example, with two scouts, one could share the Basics and a second share the Mastery feat (See the rules on Temporary Feats on p. 84 for full details.)
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Bill Whitmore
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« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2012, 10:40:02 AM »

The difference I see is the number of feats available. I also like this kind of abilities, but I think we need more Terrain feats.
If you just count total feats there are 24 Pathfinder feats (B/M/S across 8 terrain) which is a pretty significant number.

Having said that, I have no real disagreement as the argument that Pathfinder B/M/S is 24 feats seems thin even to me. Tongue

Plus, I am all for more feats of any kind.  Cheesy

One question related to this, can you share a mastery or supremacy feat to someone who has not the basics one? And, if not, that's also good for coordinated attack feat chain or even for any feat with another one as a prerequisite?

No, you can only share a feat with someone who meets the prerequisites (in this case the Basics feat).  However, one temporary feat can meet the prerequisites for another, so that, for example, with two scouts, one could share the Basics and a second share the Mastery feat (See the rules on Temporary Feats on p. 84 for full details.)

Speaking of temporary feats, I just realized that a Scout (or Captain or Keeper) could take the Feat Training favor and then share the feat with the rest of the party.

So if a party discovered an artifact they were searching for rests in a temple that sank beneath the waves centuries ago, the Scout could get Pathfinder Basics (Aquatic) for 10 reputation and then give it to the rest of the party when they begin the watery excursion.
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« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2012, 03:42:08 PM »

If you just count total feats there are 24 Pathfinder feats (B/M/S across 8 terrain) which is a pretty significant number.
Nope, only 10. Mastery and Supremacy apply to all the Pathfinder Basics feats you have.
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Bill Whitmore
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« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2012, 05:48:34 PM »

If you just count total feats there are 24 Pathfinder feats (B/M/S across 8 terrain) which is a pretty significant number.
Nope, only 10. Mastery and Supremacy apply to all the Pathfinder Basics feats you have.

Holy crap, I never noticed that before.
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« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2012, 05:49:29 PM »

23, 22 of which can be granted as a temporary feat (Qualifying to use it is your problem!).

Animal Partner
Battlefield Trickery
Bushwhack Basics
Bushwhack Mastery
Bushwhack Supremacy
Coordinated Attack
Coordinated Move
Coordinated Strike
The Extra Mile
Horde Basics
Horde Mastery
Horde Supremacy
Night Fighting
Pathfinder Basics (Aquatic)
Pathfinder Basics (Arctic)
Pathfinder Basics (Caverns/Mountains)
Pathfinder Basics (Desert)
Pathfinder Basics (Forest/Jungle)
Pathfinder Basics (Indoors/Settled)
Pathfinder Basics (Plains)
Pathfinder Basics (Swamp)
Pathfinder Mastery
Pathfinder Supremacy


« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 05:53:20 PM by Big_Jim » Logged
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