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Author Topic: What's this ?  (Read 609 times)
Wireless
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« on: August 30, 2012, 03:35:08 PM »

On page 65 , under special skill results , last sentence in first paragraph

"Modifiers may not eliminate error and threat ranges."

How does that play out ? No matter what the bonus or penalty for error and threat ranges there is always a 20 threat and a 1 error for skills ?
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paddyfool
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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2012, 03:39:00 PM »

Yep.  But you can still succeed, while still rolling an error.  It's just that the GM has the option of spending action dice to make something go wrong if they feel it appopriate (NB: this is about the least efficient way in which the GM can spend action dice to hurt you, based on the examples given, so rolling a 1 isn't all bad news).  

One example would be rolling a 1 while casting an easy spell: strange fluxes in the arcane whatchamacallit sap your power, but you still manage to make the spell go through.  

Another would be rolling a 1 on a stealth check: maybe you still successfully sneak away, but it takes you a long time to get back because the door you snuck through has since been blocked off.  Or, with the GM spending more action dice, your character might accidentally drop something which can be traced to you en route.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 03:40:44 PM by paddyfool » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2012, 03:50:46 PM »

Thanks paddyfool but not really what i was asking i guess i didn't spell it out .

If you read the paragraph it is all about bonuses and penalties the threat and error ranges.  Easy stuff like you get a +2 bonus th threat range so it becomes 18-20 . or penalty like +2 error on something 1-3 errror .  But the last sentence seems to read at least to me that you can not eliminate no matter the modifier the threat 20 and error 1
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Gentry
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2012, 05:48:00 PM »

I believe this is a semantic issue. Throughout the rules, the line referenced to adhered to--in no instance does any ability eliminate error or threat ranges specifically (i.e  say something like "the error range for X is eliminated"). However, there are instances where the rules say something like "the error range for X drops by 1, to a minimum of 0", so clearly it's possible to make a roll where an error cannot be physically rolled.

The takeaway for me is: conceptually errors and threats can never be eliminated outright, though the ranges thereof may be unreachable in certain circumstances.
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2012, 06:16:44 PM »

I suppose you could also interpret it to mean that if your normal modifiers give you a 0 error range, that's not the same thing as having no error range.  So with a 0 error range, discretionary modifiers could increase it to a rollable number.  With no range, then discretionary mods wouldn't even apply.
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Sletchman
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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2012, 08:19:12 PM »

I'm pretty sure it's just saying that there will always be an error / threat range - there is no rule that just "removes" the error range.  So having a base error of 0 sounds like it's gone, but there will be situations (firing a gun after it's been in the mud) that might give it a +X (0 != nothing, therefore 0 + X != nothing).  If that makes sense.  Same thing in reverse - if your threat range is 22, but you have a trick that gives +2 threat range to that attack then it becomes 20 again (and not "nothing" followed by either "nothing still" or "18" or "19" - depending on how you do the maths).

paddyfool isn't technically correct - the column opposite on the same page outright states that if it's a success, it's not an error.

Quote from: Page 65
When a skill check fails and the character rolls a natural number within his error range (an actual roll of the number on a d20), or when a skill result is negative, the character suffers an error.

However, myself (and many others) like having a success also be an error due to the narrative potential ("Your shot kills your target, but it's a through and through and wounds a bystander"  // "You deactivate the trap, but the noise of doing so alerts the guards next door").  So I personally totally agree with him (as do many others), but just want to clarify that it's not the RAW (though I hope that changes for SC3 and 10k Bullets - it's too cool to not have).
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 10:23:04 PM by Sletchman » Logged
Mister Andersen
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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2012, 09:33:06 PM »

Hey Sletch, can you repost that code as a quote please? It's doing funny thing to my screen
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Doublebond
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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2012, 10:18:47 PM »

Hey Sletch, can you repost that code as a quote please? It's doing funny thing to my screen

Quote
When a skill check fails and the character rolls a natural number within his error range (an actual roll of the number on a d20), or when a skill result is negative, the character suffers an error.
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Sletchman
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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2012, 10:23:57 PM »

Hey Sletch, can you repost that code as a quote please? It's doing funny thing to my screen

Quote
When a skill check fails and the character rolls a natural number within his error range (an actual roll of the number on a d20), or when a skill result is negative, the character suffers an error.

The button for code is right next to quote.  Bloody touch screens.
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Coyote0273
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2012, 12:37:47 AM »

Thanks paddyfool but not really what i was asking i guess i didn't spell it out .

If you read the paragraph it is all about bonuses and penalties the threat and error ranges.  Easy stuff like you get a +2 bonus th threat range so it becomes 18-20 . or penalty like +2 error on something 1-3 errror .  But the last sentence seems to read at least to me that you can not eliminate no matter the modifier the threat 20 and error 1

You have it essentially right.

What this means is that if you have an Weapon with an Error of 1-2, and you get a -2 Error bonus from something, it reduces it to a Error 1, rather than 0. No matter what, unless it's something that specifically states otherwise, no modifier can *eliminate* an Error/Threat range. So, no matter how you change it, 1 will always be an error, and 20 always a threat.
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2012, 07:03:57 AM »

I took it to be just as Coyote0273 said. No matter the bonus or penalty the is always the 20 threat and the 1 error.
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