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Author Topic: Impossible actions  (Read 373 times)
Kadrok
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« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2014, 07:01:24 AM »

The rule Kurk pointed out solves that situation by making him not go at all (because his new action would be 2 dice divided by 2, which would bar him given the "Each character may do this only once per round, and no character may do this if their new action produces only 2 Action Dice (as they would only have 1 die after their new total is halved, and that’s not enough to form a pool)" clause.

However, one thing that the rule doesn't account for is using odd actions to cheat defence dice into existence.

NARRATOR: So what action are you declaring in this social conflict Zeon?

ZEON: I'm going to burn pewter and try to lift that chair over my head.

NARRATOR: Ooookay... that's quite odd. Well, on 11 action dice I guess you go first.

ZEON: Great! I commit two of them to lifting the chair over my head.

NARRATOR: But...

ZEON: Oh, I failed. I guess I dropped the chair. But, would you look at that, 9 defence dice in a social conflict! That's pretty good for a guy with 2 charm and no relevant traits!

NARRATOR: I hate you KADROK... I mean... ZEON.
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Crafty_Alex
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« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2014, 10:19:06 AM »

Um... Maybe I have an old version of the rules, but I thought you had to re-figure your AD when you changed actions.

Pg 180, PDF, V2: (Emphasis in Original)
Quote
2. DECLARE A NEW ACTION
Alternately, the player may declare a new action instead (the action declared
in Step 1 doesn’t happen). This is dangerous, as it costs the character precious
moments
and dramatically impacts his or her performance.

The character’s Action
Dice are immediately refigured for the new action
and halved (rounding up), and the character now goes at the very end of
the round (as if he or she has only 1 Action Die).
Defense Dice are what remains after this new action is taken, per the rules
described earlier in this section.


Each character may do this only once per round, and no character may do
this if their new action produces only 2 Action Dice
(as they would only have 1
die after their new total is halved, and that’s not enough to form a pool).

Example: Rather than go through with his attack on Carrow, Thorrow might
choose to help Koel take out the running guard, throwing his spear through
the wall (it’s only wood and he’s a Pewterarm). As this would be a new action,
Thorrow’s
Action Dice would be refigured — also to 12, as all the same factors
are in play for this alternate attack — and then halved, rounding up (to 6). The
throw would also occur at the end of the round.

EDIT: So if you, say, switch from using Pewter to have a pool of 10 to using Steel and having an initial pool of 4 in your new action, it seems that we might run into some problems.

EDIT 2: Clarified my initial EDIT to show that the Steel pool was new and before being halved.

You are correct - I was working from memory in between other, non-MB projects.

So doing this correctly by the rules, you'd still have the same basic situation:

* You have 8 dice. You will act on 8.
* Guy attacks you, you spend 4 to defend (4 left). You will now act on 4.
* He moves away, making your action impossible.
* Your turn comes up, you declare a new action. Your new action pool would be 6 dice, which you then halve (6 to 3), and you will act last.
* At the end of the conflict round, you act with 3 dice.

The only place this gets weird is when you take an inopportune action and redeclare to something you're better at, but even then it's not really a great idea...

* You have 4 dice. You will act on 4.
* Guy attacks you, you spend 2 to defend (2 left), which is likely not enough to succeed. You will now act on 2.
* He moves away, making your action impossible.
* Your turn comes up, you declare a new action. Your new action pool would be 10 dice, which you then halve (10 to 5), and you will act last.
* At the end of the conflict round, you act with 5 dice.

Even then, I don't find this a problem, as choosing an inappropriate action sets you up for a lot of abuse while you wait for your turn, and reduces your ability to defend while you wait to act (not a great strategy). Even if you do reform your pool to another action, you're still only getting a max of 5 dice and are acting dead last, so I don't see it as a great payoff for all the trouble you potentially expose yourself to.
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rafter613
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« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2014, 10:24:07 AM »

But what if you do the following:
1: Declare that you're going to punch someone and gain AD (say, 12 for being a Thug)
2: Be attacked, spend *all* of your AD defending against various attacks
3: On your turn, change your action to, say, punching someone else, and gain 6 more AD
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Outis
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« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2014, 11:40:39 AM »

First, Claincy, you said exactly what I was thinking better than I could have.

Second, Kad brings up the point I was about to. What about using obviously inappropriate actions, wasting two dice on that action, and then getting a ludicrious amount of defense dice you shouldn't really be due, thematically?

Finally, to carry an example Alex brought up somewhat to the extreme.

Let's say I declare what I'll do, and I know I'll get 8 dice. The other guy declares his action, which will be to attack me, and then take a step away, making my action "impossible." His action will give him 10 dice.

He goes first, and attacks. Knowing I'm about to reconfigure my entire pool anyway, I spend all 8 dice on defense. Then it's my turn. My action is now impossible, so I choose a different action, one that only gets me 6 dice. I halve it to 3.

Yes, I have to wait for anyone else to go, but I've now, on this turn, had a pool of 11 dice when I originally was only going to have 8, AND should have suffered a penalty.

I could see a houserule that if you spend literally every die on Defense you simply forgo your turn, so you can't "reconfigure" but that hardly helps. In that case, I spend 6 dice on defense, then re-calculate my actual turn to 3, and end up with a total of 9 dice, a bonus of one die from my initial action.

There should be a rule that you cannot contribute any more dice to a Defense pool than you could, theoretically, have generated. There should also be a rule about dice you've spent in a defense pool being some penalty to your new, re-calculated dice pool after your new action is declared and re-calculated.
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Morgenstern
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« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2014, 05:41:23 PM »

  Out of curiosity, do these scenarios require anything stronger than "Changing actions cannot increase the number of dice in your pool" to take them all out behind the woodshed and work them over with a fine piece of hickory?
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Crafty_Alex
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« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2014, 06:17:24 PM »

  Out of curiosity, do these scenarios require anything stronger than "Changing actions cannot increase the number of dice in your pool" to take them all out behind the woodshed and work them over with a fine piece of hickory?

Not really. In fact, I might further clarify that to say "Your new pool after changing actions cannot be larger than your current pool." Thus, if you're that guy who takes a physical action with 10 dice, throws all 10 at defense, then tries to change your action, you have no dice (thus you cannot change actions). That would prevent all the abuse I can see from where I sit at the moment.
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Kadrok
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« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2014, 06:47:23 PM »

Having a board full of Munchkins must be useful for this sort of bug fixing... Smiley
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Kurkistan_
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« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2014, 08:03:17 PM »

One last point of clarification, then (and thanks for being so helpful so far Smiley ): Is "your new pool after changing actions" before or after you halve it?
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