In response to A:
Next to no antagonists? I know I tried to address this concern before, but I'll give it another shot. Just as stories set in the Star Wars universe are not limited to killing Imperial Stormtroopers and commanding officers and taking down the Emperor and Vader (as much fun as that is), Mistborn stories are not limited to killing Steel Ministry Obligators and House nobles and taking down the Lord Ruler. I think most settings can be reduced down to a handful of types of antagonists, they are just given differing personalities and abilities to make them seem
unique. For example, while D&D as a setting has a plethora (I love íThree Amigos!
) of monsters to choose from, many are just variations on the monsters that the heroes have already overcome. A lot of it can come down to description.
Star Wars is a bad example here. There is so much more shown and to Star Wars than there is to Scadriel. If I could throw in the whole Cosmere as seen it still wouldn't match the breadth shown in the Original Star Wars Trilogy. There are lots of stories, but many of them will be repeats of the same old thing. I know Mistbrn stories on an individual level aren't just deal with TLR, but any story arc worth a damn in the mepire leads there because he is the only problem, or at least the only solution to the multitude of problems.
Additionally, there are lots of different types
of conflicts and not all of them are physical. Gambling, racing, smuggling, long cons, smear campaigns, etc. They don't provide a "villain-of-the-week" in the book, but give you the tools to create your own. One Obligator might have a penchant for a game of shelldry; another might look out for orphan skaa children, but relentlessly persecute his skaa servants. How about a Steel Inquisitor that never runs anywhere. Instead, his heavy walk telegraphs his coming. He knows you can (and will) run away, but likes serving as a reminder that you will never truly escape. He believes your death is inevitable.
In response to B:
If you want to permanently acquire wealth and cool stuff, you buy it with advancements. The rules are there. Now, if you want to be able to keep every last thing you pick up (regardless of relevance to the story at hand), you're right, the rules don't support it. And neither does the story the rules are based off of. Do any of the heroes count coins? They want more wealth, but aren't scrimping and saving every last boxing and clip to do so.
Part of the disconnect for me comes from past experiences with RPGs, where I amassed money (whether gold or credits or some other form of currency). Of course, with that mindset I also had to account for money spent on food, lodging, and all of my gear (including repairs!), which I happily don't have to deal with in this game. I can understand the appeal it might have for some people, so it certainly isn't badwrongfun to do so, but I also don't miss the extra bookkeeping. Remember, this is supposed to be a narrative and rather rules-light game. I think that the rules support that playstyle better by cutting back on counting coin or keeping track of everything your character has ever picked up.
The problem here is again, the fact the characters are a thieving crew. They steal things. Shouldn't they be able to steal things in game.
In response to C:
What did Kelsier's thieving crew steal in the novels? I don't remember thieving to be anything more than the method they used to further their goals, and not that the crew amassed fortunes or a whole lot of stuff that they used from then on. Again, this feels more like expectations set based on other RPGs where such actions are encouraged, if not necessary for PC survival.
Think about Kel's backstory. For at least a decade he led people in huge and outrageous heists. Brilliant ones that led to his eventual publishable story arc. RPG's should be starting there. When he formed his first Crew as a Crew Leader. That is where Mistborn's story starts. We don't see it but the RPG should allow it.
In response to D:
I think this ties in with the desire to count coin (See response to B). Long breathers make it so that you don't have to track every last coin and piece of inventory every player has accrued in the game. I find it similar to the Panache and Prudence aspects of Lifestyle in Fantasy Craft. It is expected that your character spends some money during downtime. In the case of Mistings and Mistborn, it means that they also replenish their vials. So it is not just about losing what they've acquired, it is about returning to the state of having what they expect to need or at least what they typically have on their person.
It's about my writing style. I do things years apart at times. The characters have lives outside of their in campaign antics. I find this makes the characters more comfortable and developed. It also allows for alot of narrative leeway. In Mistborn this is a punishment to the players and an unsupported Story Structure-Something I think all RPG's should avoid.
In response to E:
I fail to see how other stories can't
be told. I brought up Star Wars before. Just because the main story the game is based on follows a particular pattern doesn't mean that all
stories told in the setting must follow that same pattern (though Joseph Campbell might disagree with me on that one...
). I guess I just see a setting oozing
with potential for all kinds of stories. I'll try to provide some examples after lunch.
Other Stories can be told. Their natural arcs however, all lead to one place. Killing TLR. IN addition the system and world conspire to hinder a large number of story types and structures.
Little stories with little goals don't work well.
Heist stories don't work well unless they follow the same formula used in the books.
Stories in cities other than Luthadel don't work well because next to nothing is known about said cities.
Stories after the main story don't work well because we know very little about how the society held together other than who the new head honcho was.
Stories before the main story don't work well because they break in game continuity.
Stories about gangs don't work well because the typical goals of a gang aren't available or are super low risk.
I feel railroaded in how I can DM this system and it is my natural inclination to buck railroading as hard as I can. I don't want to count coppers but I sure as hell want to run a Heist using Mistborn because that is the single best story arc for the world as a whole, but it doesn't work in the system. I want to be able to run simple one shots that are Heists. But the motivation just isn't there. Think about what motivates Gamers.
Cool Stuff-Every MMO is filled with people trying to get the biggest baddest gear.
T&A-I avoid this in my games.
Random Slaughter-GTA-I avoid this as well.
Save the World-I don't run these stories on a big obvious level. When My heroes save the world they're probably going to keep their mouths shut so nobody figures out the world almost ended and people don't panic. That style doesn't work under a dictatorship though.
To Create something cool. That's the goal of all games I run. To create cool memories for my friends. I feel like I can't do that in a way the books don't do better. It's why i avoid duplicating storylines from books.
Again, I know why the decisions were made but I feel railroaded by it. I don't necessarily want my players counting every copper. I do want them to be able to accrue wealth in a feasible way without it overpowering the game. In Mistborn that doesn't seem to work... But damn it I have so many cool heists I could create for the players if there was a purpose behind those heists.
And there are no rules for acquiring unique character props. There is nothing for the Thug who adores his Koloss sword or the Blacksmith that designed an aluminum alloy sword that can't be pulled or pushed but can keep its shape. There's nothing for the Kandra who goes to the mausoleum and stores bones because in the end that storage means nothing, despite the fact he works hard to steal them for his own reasons. There is nothing for characters that do want to count coppers, that do care about wealth. I understand the Mistborn Caste didn't care, but why restrict players from character concepts that do?
What about Kel's stick of the Eleventh Metal? It isn't a prop. The first time he took a couple days off it should have gone away because it "wasn't important" Items can be important. Just include a designation for it. A note on why the items disappears, The game book mentions non-prop acquisitions disappear at long breathers like three times and never goes into any detail on it. No Why. No, Keep items of importance around though. Nothing.
Please, stop telling me I'm wrong and start telling me well, why don't you try this way to fix it. Start helping constructively or please please please don't post. I'm not trying to be convinced away from this system. I'm not trying to put down the system. I'm looking for help to make other styles of story work. I'm looking for advice. I'm tempted to just homebrew up a set of stats for the crew itself. Give it a few stats_Likely the three standings and reputation. At least then damage done to someones resources score can get added to the crews funds and players can roll off of that as an option. It allows some extra use on social conflicts as well and the party has a certain amount of luck. Now how to work out those stats. I would think the average of the party Plus 2 to a maximum of the highest in the party. Then the party will gain advancement along with the players that they can spend on those stats. Nble houses would have something similar. It could easily simulate an real economy. Hmmmmmm. I like this idea.
Either way, this isn't a constructive discussion the way its heading. We've said the same things half a dozen times apiece and neither is being swayed. Lets look for constructive workarounds instead of trying to convince each other there is or isn't a problem. Because damn it I will have maturity on the internet. It is my DUTY. Heheh I said duty.