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Author Topic: Duralumin question (Alloy of Law spoiler)  (Read 1208 times)
dbmeboy
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« on: August 23, 2012, 12:08:53 PM »

This question came up in a game recently. I was wondering if anyone more well-versed in allomantic theory knew the answer: does duralumin share aluminum's property of being immune to steel push/iron pull?
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Aminar
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« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2012, 04:27:30 PM »

Yes and no.  I would guess that it acts like a metal that weighs as much as it would without the aluminum in it.  In theory that could make Duraluminum objects super easy to shove around.
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dbmeboy
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« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2012, 05:17:28 PM »

I'm not sure alloys work like that though.  It's not like it's a chunk of aluminum with little bits of copper mixed into it.
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Aminar
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2012, 05:23:47 PM »

I have the same question, but given no answer I would say that's a pretty safe way to look at it.  The other option is to say that Duraluminum is extra vulnerable to Allomancy.  But the only way to do that is decide if it acts heavier or lighter than it should.  It wouldn't make sense if it did both.  Having it act lighter fits with that quite well.  That said, you can always take the question to the 17th shard if you're really curious.  They might know more.
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Cen
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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2012, 10:57:37 PM »

In Alloy of Law Wax talks about aluminum and several of its hardier alloys being allomanticlly inert. The question then is if duralumin is one of these alloys. Based on the fact that duralumin is one of the tuffer aluminum alloys http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duralumin my guess would be that it is inert and was possibly one of the metals used to craft the guns used in the book.

I don't think there is any canon evidence to suggest that it would be any more susceptible to being Pushed or Pulled but then again there's nothing to say it's not.

Just my interpretation of things
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Aminar
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2012, 11:47:53 PM »

Nah, no evidence.  I would just think that the copper in it shouldn't be inert on an atomic level.  At the same time though if you can't soothe through a aluminum hat can you push or pull metal through an aluminum wall?  If not then duraluminum would likely be inert.  In addition that comment from alloy implies that its inert.  Now are nicro and chromium inert?  It seems a safe assumption to me
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dbmeboy
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2012, 06:53:58 AM »

@Animar: Alloys, even in our world, are not a simple case of mixing one metal into another.  So there's really no reason that the copper nuclei in duralumin would behave as if they were copper the metal.  In universe example: all of the allomantic alloys act differently than a mix of the two metals would.  Burning bronze is not the same as burning copper and burning tin.

I had completely forgotten that alloys of aluminum were also referred to in AoL.  Looks like my gut decision was correct at least.  I hadn't seen anything about chromium and nicrosil though... why are we assuming that they're inert?  Because they're also "enhancement" metals?
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Aminar
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2012, 07:17:22 AM »

Because Chromium steals metals like aluminum.
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dbmeboy
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2012, 09:43:45 AM »

I guess... Maybe when Brandon gets around to Alloy of Law annotations we'll learn more. I really should have asked him at gencon...
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EmpactWB
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2012, 04:17:19 PM »

@Animar: Alloys, even in our world, are not a simple case of mixing one metal into another.
To be fair, he said on the atomic level, and most alloys are just suspensions on the atomic level, not separate chemicals. It's a fair assertion on his part (and my biggest stumbling block to understanding how it actually differentiates between them.
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dbmeboy
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« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2012, 04:39:14 PM »

@Animar: Alloys, even in our world, are not a simple case of mixing one metal into another.
To be fair, he said on the atomic level, and most alloys are just suspensions on the atomic level, not separate chemicals. It's a fair assertion on his part (and my biggest stumbling block to understanding how it actually differentiates between them.

They're really closer to solutions than suspensions.
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EmpactWB
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« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2012, 05:00:51 PM »

Blame the ages since I needed to remember the difference. Looking them up again, you are correct, I should have said solutions. Smiley
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dbmeboy
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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2012, 05:18:52 PM »

Yeah... alloys are funny things.  Sure, on a nuclear level there would be copper nuclei interspersed with aluminum nuclei, but they form distinct phases that have physical properties often significantly different than either pure metal.  In allomancy at least, it would seem that the alloyed metal is treated as a separate metal, which would imply that the atomic level isn't what drives the metal properties.  Or perhaps that Brandon isn't a materials scientist, but a (rather good) author.  One of those two.
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EmpactWB
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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2012, 05:22:10 PM »

Considering he's referred to the factor that shapes the power granted by Allomancy as the "atomic code" in interviews, I'm going to say he's a really cool author with interesting takes on magic that aren't based too deeply in real world science.

Because then it wouldn't be magic. Wink
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Aminar
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« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2012, 09:39:36 PM »

From what I've heard he tries to stick to physics but will break it when he wants.  Alloys are just such a human concept in many ways.  It's X parts 1 metal, Xparts another.  I know burning sees things one way, but does a steelpush?  I don't know.  it would seem very add.  Although Wax waxes on about how Alloys are a totally seperate thing from their parts...  it's some kind of reference to the title and I really didn't buy it...  But I had a messed up wrist, actually took painkillers(albeit next to nothing) and was working while I listened to Alloy so I might be missing things.
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