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Author Topic: [Notebook] ShadowCraft  (Read 10133 times)
ludomastro
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« Reply #255 on: October 02, 2012, 02:26:38 AM »

What i was saying was make the Craft (program) the thing that creates the bonuses Morgenstern was refering to Smiley

I caught that; however, I want to be sure I am understanding you.

Are you suggesting that the Hacker (either as a class or as a sub-set of skills) use Downtime checks to create the bonuses for later use?  If so, what happens if the mission changes and they have to Hack movie style?  Can they do it?  Do they lose the bonuses?  If it's strictly a Downtime check, couldn't it end up being something like a SC 2.0 Gear pick?
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Morganti
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« Reply #256 on: October 02, 2012, 02:46:37 AM »

As a mechanical analogy.  On the fly hacking is a lesser charm, down time hacking is a greater charm.

So Pre mission, the hacker cooks up some programs, and then they go off on the run.  He makes one or two "open locks" programs to give the team a boost in getting through security or what have you.  Mid mission the team comes across a mainframe that the hacker hasn't prepared for, he can do some quick hacks (cinematic style), much like the Tactic/Ambush check being 1 min normally or 2 rounds with Ambush Basics... but the bonus is smaller, or different.
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ludomastro
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« Reply #257 on: October 02, 2012, 02:50:48 AM »

Ah, I didn't get that at all.  Ok, I'll have to ponder that.
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« Reply #258 on: October 02, 2012, 02:56:23 AM »

Also, on the whole cinematic thing, how many hacks in genre fiction, be it print or motion picture take less than a minute (speed of plot)?
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Sletchman
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« Reply #259 on: October 02, 2012, 07:33:46 AM »

Ludo - you should ask your group what they want, also.  I know my own group often have computer expert characters (and a couple of the players are, also) but they would rather my game be more player inclusive and action focused - so hacking when not in the field and under fire is a downtime die roll (just the one).  I, however, won't be running the Shadowrun setting any time, so what my players want isn't really useful in this thread compared to what yours want.

I had some ideas about writing up Grappling as a self contained pseudo-DC, many of which might (might) transfer to Avatar Cybercombat, should that be the kind of stuff they're about.  I'll think about it on the plane, and jot down some notes for if you're interested.  It might not work well at all though, due to it's more reactionary nature (so we'll see).

I don't think the Hacker is a general enough concept to be a Base Class - the "Master Hacker" concept is just too focused and really belongs in an Expert Class.  I have no problem with 2.0's Hacker, but a lot of people didn't even look at it properly because of it's name (Wheelman had the same issue) - it would have been better served with a more generalist name (and Core Ability) like Troubleshooter or something that was fitting it's concept, and then led into a Hacker EC.
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ludomastro
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« Reply #260 on: October 03, 2012, 02:29:46 AM »

I appreciate the advice; however, here's the situation.  The wife would like to give Shadowrun another try but not in the native rules format.  My regular gaming group has fallen through for various reasons (mostly my work schedule) and it would appear that I am going to be transferred in the near future.

Thus, to try to get a jump on the next gaming group I'll put together (wherever we end up) I'm trying to work out the details for a d20 Shadowrun.  Or at least for a d20 Shadowrun-esque game.
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Morgenstern
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« Reply #261 on: October 03, 2012, 04:52:48 PM »

Also, on the whole cinematic thing, how many hacks in genre fiction, be it print or motion picture take less than a minute (speed of plot)?

Movie ones happen at that speed regularly. Then again, Hollywood hates hacking. They dress it up as all kinda of vissually intriguing absurdities, dating al the way back to the old Star Trek where Kirk fries some robots with a paradox.
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Morgenstern
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« Reply #262 on: October 03, 2012, 05:51:40 PM »

Ok, I'm on a new computer so my word processor of choice is down which makes me reluctant to do massive text-building, but let me see if I can give a better representations ofwhat I was thinking with a hacking feat line/class combo. My thinking is the GM determines when the hacking is possible, so the bonuses are big, but also situational. I'd also crib most of the earlier Spycraft rules for check times based on comparitive system grade.

Hacking Bonus
Hacking bonuses are named bonuses that can be added to skill checks that involve making electronic/digital devices act in a fashion that is possible, but uninteded by the designer. Many uses of hacking relate to security with opening locks, deceiving cameras, and geting computers to volunteer what should be restricted files or access to their upper-level functions. The DCs for these checks are often substantially higher than normal checks to use these devices in the intended fashion and would be practically impossible without the hacking bonus.

  New Gear Feats
  Haxor Basics
  Benefit: You gain a +2 hacking bonus. When you spend action dice to boost a check you are applying a hacking bonus to, the number of dice rolled is doubled.

  Haxor Mastery
  Benefit: You may spend 2 action dice to boost rolls where you may apply your hacking bonus. At the begining of each session you gain four d6 action dice that may only be spent to boost or confirm criticals on checks where you may apply your hacking bonus.

  Haxor Supremacy
  Benefit: At the begining of each scene you gain two d10 action dice that may only be spent to boost or confirm criticals on checks where you may apply your hacking bonus.

I think the hacker archetype calls for either an Origin or a Bass class, but definitely NOT an expert class - fictional hackers don't grow into hacking from something else, it's what the bring to the story right at the outset. Using the feats above as a starting point, a base class might offer~

'Wired: At level 1, you gain the Haxor Basics feat.
Digital Rockstar: At levels 3, 7, 11, 15, and 19, your hacking bonus increases by +2.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 05:54:04 PM by Morgenstern » Logged

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Morgenstern
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« Reply #263 on: October 03, 2012, 06:19:33 PM »

I'm on board with cyberware, at least until bioware comes along.  I'm down to about three joints that are in proper working order, so returning the function or removing the pain is step one. Throw in actually improving the damaged joint/limb so you can do the more dangerous jobs that pay better, and yeah, I see how you get old street sams who are two thirds chrome.

Now this was intriguing. Cyberware exists in Farthest Star, but its totally a fringe science - only weirdos and metal cults ever go in for it - the medium term health issues of amputation just don't sit well with most people. That raises the questions what do mainstream people do when faced with the ills chrome theoretically addresses. I see two response that are acceptible in the community-larger. First, nearly everyone wears an Oilskin, a skin-suit cosmetically resembling a modern day wetsuit. One feature that could be added to an oilskin would be a network of long, flat, semi-flexible "bones" that run along the outside of the legs all the way down to the soles of the feet. In conjunction with good supporting ligment straping around the joints and synthtic muscles that mimc your motions by non-invasivly reading the electical impulses of you muscles adjacent to them, you get a system that reduces your appearant weight by about 10%. That should make your joints a lot happier Smiley.

The other more invassive (and therefore seen as less advanced) solution in common use would be passive cybernetics. Basically go in and reconstruct the joints and buffers with sturdy, reliable synthetics. The joint is rendered smooth and servicable but there is NOTHING that takes a battery or that can fail for non-structual reasons. Nothing to be hacked. It relies on the existing musculature to opperate though, and in some cases that might need biological replacements - cloned muscle strands maybe.

The biggest limiting factor in Farthest Star is a widely entrenched suspicion of more-than-human augmentation. This is a culture that's (barely) survived at least three rounds of the more-than-humans lording it over the public at large and the question of what to do with a supersoldier after the war has ended has been more than theoretical a few times now. The general response has been to externalize the tech - augments you can take off when the demands to be superhuman have receeded.
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Mister Andersen
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« Reply #264 on: October 03, 2012, 09:25:49 PM »

Just thematically if nothing else, the bonus to hacking checks really should be insight.

At this point, I really want to just straight out renamed Crafting to Expertise, as it eliminates virtually all the gramatic and conceptual tics as using it for the key skill when hacking.
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Sletchman
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« Reply #265 on: October 05, 2012, 01:50:11 AM »

I appreciate the advice; however, here's the situation.  The wife would like to give Shadowrun another try but not in the native rules format.  My regular gaming group has fallen through for various reasons (mostly my work schedule) and it would appear that I am going to be transferred in the near future.

Thus, to try to get a jump on the next gaming group I'll put together (wherever we end up) I'm trying to work out the details for a d20 Shadowrun.  Or at least for a d20 Shadowrun-esque game.

Fair enough.  Makes it a little difficult, since my big take away point from this thread is that everyone wants to represent slightly different things.  What does you wife want?  Usually that's a good starting point for any husband... Wink  Did she like the fluff around the cybercombat stuff?  Or just want hackers to do their job and get away from the fun stuff that's going on?
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ludomastro
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« Reply #266 on: October 05, 2012, 02:26:08 PM »

Fair enough.  Makes it a little difficult, since my big take away point from this thread is that everyone wants to represent slightly different things.  What does you wife want?  Usually that's a good starting point for any husband... Wink  Did she like the fluff around the cybercombat stuff?  Or just want hackers to do their job and get away from the fun stuff that's going on?

Knowing what she wants is very important.  (Most important words I've learned in marriage aren't "I love  you." they are "Yes, dear.")
That said, she wants to play a street samurai or a physical adept.
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Mister Andersen
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« Reply #267 on: November 20, 2014, 02:19:08 AM »

So some 2 years later, how'd all this work out?
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ludomastro
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« Reply #268 on: November 21, 2014, 03:16:28 PM »

So some 2 years later, how'd all this work out?

Sadly, poorly.  I started this crazy thought process just before we moved (work) and the wife and I became distracted by the day to day of real life.  Finding a 6-month rental, then buying a house.  Dealing with new schools, settling into the job, etc.

By the time that I was able to get back to it, the wife had lost interest in playing a duet-style campaign.  (Which doesn't really work for Shadowrun anyway but, I digress.)  Thus it more or less died on the vine so to speak.  Which made me sad.

Interestingly, I was thinking about picking it up again while I'm off for the Thanksgiving Holiday.  Imagine my surprise when I log in and find that someone had posted in the very thread that I was thinking about.

As I see it, the problem is one of cyberware and adepts.  The FC magic system, while not ideal for the fiction, works well enough that a first pass wouldn't need to make any changes*.  However, trying to figure out the balance between cyberware and adept powers is what has me stumped.  Cyberware is basically purchasable gear that grant super powers while adept powers are more or less a physical form of magic ... for the most part, anyway.  However, there is a certain degree of overlap between the two.  I kicked around developing "powers" as highly specific prizes and then flavoring to taste with a handful reserved for each side but that felt ... flat somehow.  And, cyberware doesn't feel like gear under that set up.  Still probably the best approach; I just haven't done much with it.

* And in changes lie the greatest danger to this process for me.  I've never been a master of the nuts and bolts that hold systems together.  If I start tinkering too much I inevitably head toward the source material - often to the detriment of what I am trying to accomplish.  

So, that's my update.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 03:19:15 PM by ludomastro » Logged

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