[Notebook] ShadowCraft

[ludomastro]

@ MilitiaJim

As long as we don't make it more complicated than it needs to be, I'm all for a little more ballistic realism.  However, I don't want 8 different types of 22 rounds, or scads of new rules to cover minute differences in pistol characteristics.

[Sletchman]

I assumed that the setting had an implicit "in the future weapon calibers are agreed upon" sort of thing.  Like NATO rounds, but more so.  So everyone uses ".45ACP" for their "heavy pistols" and so on.  SMGs are a different matter, but that was my in-setting assumption on the other one.

Minus the fact that you can run .45ACP through Derringers, and .22lr through 1911s.  Heck, they even make pistols that use rifle rounds.  I understand the desire for simplification, but they did it in such a reality breaking way.

True, but we also don't have Megacorps with all the insane stuff I'm lead to believe goes with them - imagine if FN or Colt were their own country, and boutique design firms were all but non-existent.  It'd certainly change things.  I say "lead to believe" because I've only played Shadowrun a handful of times and never really got into it (and so never read the books that carefully beyond the mechanics).

I'm all for contributing to new guns of absolutely any kind though, so if anyone can post up / link to some stats I'm totally happy to attempt to contribute.

[Sletchman]

Also, if anyone is interested, I've converted a fair bit of Spycraft's Armour to Fantasy Craft for my Stargate game.  Just not sure what sort of armour is available in Shadowrun, so it might well be entirely useless.

[ludomastro]

After more pondering and book reference, I want to go with Mr. A's Dwarf, Take 4.

I think that wraps up the base races, human already being covered by Talents quite nicely.

What's next?  We'll need setting appropriate Specialties.  Even without cyberware gear is a big one.  With cyberware it's not just big, it's huge.  Magic needs to be discussed: 1) How to handle spells for Hermetic Mages and Shamans (Do spell levels make sense?  Can they be skinned in such a way as to make sense?  etc.) and 2) How to handle magical ninjas Adepts.

[ludomastro]

Also, if anyone is interested, I've converted a fair bit of Spycraft's Armour to Fantasy Craft for my Stargate game.  Just not sure what sort of armour is available in Shadowrun, so it might well be entirely useless.

Personally, I'd like to see what you have.  Though, to answer your question, armor in Shadowrun has two resistance ratings: one for Ballistic (bullets, obviously) and one for Impact (pretty much everything else, including electrical shock).  Most of the time the Impact rating is half or less of the Ballistic rating; however, certain items - such as a leather biker jackets - are switched.  Armor serves to both lower the value of an attack as well as determining if the attack did physical or stun damage.  In typical RPG fashion, more armor means heavier and less concealable.

EDIT: spelling

[Mister Andersen]

Set out how adepts are different from mages are different from shamen / establish the salient details of each archtype. Bullet points help.

Similarly, wat are the essential types of augmentation

[ludomastro]

My previous post brings up another potential area that needs to be discussed: combat.  Given that SR has two tracks (stun and physical), how should that be modeled in FC?  I'm inclined to use either Stress or Subdual - with associated conditions - for Stun and use the existing VP/WP divide for physical damage.  However, that in and of itself brings up the question of vitality in a more or less lethal game.  Should characters gain copious quantities of Vitality or should they be much more limited?

EDIT: grammar

[ludomastro]

@ Mr. A

As of 4th Edition, there are no functional differences between Mages and Shamans.  Fluff differences, yes.  Thus, I don't see a need to draw a line between them.  For backwards compatibility the GM can limit each side to a smaller subset of schools to reflect the iconic divisions of the particular edition under consideration.

Adepts are mostly the - for lack of a better term - magical ninjas of the setting.  They can cling to buildings like Spiderman(tm), they can contort their facial muscles in such a way as to appear to be someone else.  They can perform a ki punch that affects someone from the other side of the room.  They can be super fast.  Such a list would be rather long.  The common element is that all their abilities come from magic.

Another point for consideration: Magic must be resisted when cast and failure drains the user in some way.  If the power of the spell is less than their magic rating, the drain is functionally an attack that does stun damage.  If it is more than their magic rating, it is functionally an attack that does physical damage.
----

Essential Cyberware

• Sensory enhancements (e.g. sight - infrared, ultraviolet; hearing - amplification, ultrasound, sonar; etc.)
• Brain enhancements (e.g. math processing, in-brain computer, etc.)
• Reaction enhancement
• Limb replacement (e.g. increased strength, recoil reduction, hidden compartments, etc.)
• Enhanced function (e.g. breathing air tank installed in lungs, nanobots that repair internal damage)
• Installed weaponry (think Unborn weapons in folk)
• Vehicle Control Rig (VCR) for rigging (backwards compatibility issue)
• ...

I'm sure I'll think of more.

EDIT: clarity

[MilitiaJim]

As long as we don't make it more complicated than it needs to be, I'm all for a little more ballistic realism.  However, I don't want 8 different types of 22 rounds, or scads of new rules to cover minute differences in pistol characteristics.

Yeah, I'm fine with that.  Totally on board as a matter of fact.  I'll apply my minimal brain power and get the list down to a dozen or fewer cartridges.

[Mister Andersen]

Combat

Seems to work more or less as it does in Mastercraft -- 1 full or 2 half actions a turn, ignoring augmentation-derivdd bonus passes -- so for the sake of simplicity I'd toss the 3 second round in favour of keeping the standard 6-second d20 round.

There's an argument that you could certainly use 2.0's fluid initiative system. Personally, I'm quite happy that MC did away with the extra bookkeeping it entails, so reaction-enhancing augments should simply boost your initiative or start replicating Surge of Speed / Haste.

2.0 armour already has 2 ratings: unarmed/melee/non-grenade hurled, and then everything else (amusingly, the opposite order to SR's listing).  Since you're going to importing gear wholecloth, this can be pretty much left as is. Alternatively, you can go with a single DR rating and simply use resistances to model particular effectiveness/weakness against certain attacks.

Since you mentions something similar existing in SR, I'll note that 2.0 also operates under the rule that if armour reduces damage to 0, you suffer 1 subdual in the form of bruising; again, my instinct is since you are moving over to mastercraft, it would be wisest to follow the system's lead here and leave the rule -- and again, all the extra bookkeeping and dice rolls it generates -- by the kerbside.

Same deal with damage: stick with vitality/wounds and don't sweat it.


S.I.N.

While disposable/limited use false identities should remain gear, an enduring SIN and the legal personhood that goes with it is absolutely a prize (and probably be purchasable as a Gear feat like Extra Contacts et al)

[MikeS]

FC combat should work in every way for a Shadowrun game. Subdual models the Stun track nicely.
Guns and armor may need to be converted, either from SC2.0 or from SR. If you want more lethality, reduce vitality or increase threat ranges.

I think level-based magic would work for SR, at least to first order. From a balancing perspective, it would be much easier to use levels, rather than to fully convert the magic system.
There are two changes that I would consider, though:
1) Implementing drain, rather than having a spell point cost. This would be a Will save vs the spells drain (likely based on level or spell point cost), and if it fails, the caster takes subdual or lethal damage, depending again on spell level.
2) In SR, casters can cast spells at power levels above their magic rating, or, in FC terms, spells at level above their Circle of power. Spells cast at or below the Circle of power cause subdual drain, spells cast above cause lethal drain.
Additionally, spell casters have a lot of flexibility with area of effect, so maybe the casters should be getting the appropriate magic feats by default.

As Ludo said, for spellcasting, there is no mechanical difference between shamans and mages, but they summon different spirits. (Almost) all spell casters can summon spirits by default in SR. Shamans summon spirits of nature, and can do so within an action, whereas mages summon elementals, which takes hours, but then the elementals can be kept around for a while.

Adepts use their Magic attribute to buy powers which, in many cases, duplicate cyberware. In theory, if a reputation system is used for cyberware, the adepts could use the same system. Otherwise, a class that focuses on Paths would work (and would indeed be quite fluff-appropriate).

[MilitiaJim]

As Ludo said, for spellcasting, there is no mechanical difference between shamans and mages, but they summon different spirits. (Almost) all spell casters can summon spirits by default in SR. Shamans summon spirits of nature, and can do so within an action, whereas mages summon elementals, which takes hours, but then the elementals can be kept around for a while.

I see each summoning spell having two versions:  The one round version and the one hour version, the summoned entity's staying time based on the time spent casting the spell.

Adepts use their Magic attribute to buy powers which, in many cases, duplicate cyberware. In theory, if a reputation system is used for cyberware, the adepts could use the same system. Otherwise, a class that focuses on Paths would work (and would indeed be quite fluff-appropriate).

I hadn't thought of it like this.  I very much like where it could be going.  Where does bioware fit into this?

[Mister Andersen]

A much simpler way to implement something like drain is to simply treat spell points like vitality: you run out of them, you take a level of fatigued.

Also, remember our overcasting houserule

[MikeS]

That would also be much less satisfying.
In SR, a mage can knock himself out with spellcasting. That's a bit more drastic than a level of fatigue.
Drain should be like subdual damage with the "take an extra level of fatigue for every x by which you fail the save".

Unless you mean: take a level of fatigued, then refresh the spell points. That could work.

[Mister Andersen]

Just remember that SR uses drain as a balancing mechanic for magic because their system doesn't use spell points or caster level as d20 does.

I'd suggest that you change the critical error result of a spell casting check from a -5 penalty to your next check to an autolevel of shaken. Similarly, replace the double point cost for overcasting with an autolevel of fatigued.