Author Topic: [Notebook] ShadowCraft  (Read 15315 times)

Mister Andersen

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Re: [Notebook] ShadowCraft
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2012, 02:48:20 AM »
Wireless access is an absolute cognative necessity given just how ubiquitious the wirelessly accessed media sphere of today is in modern urban areas. I mean, realistically, people should be keeping data they genuinely wanted protected offline but that ain't going to happen because people want and need to access it on the go. Given quantum (and assumedly, magically enhanced at that) encryption, the wired/unwired connect is predominantly going to be one of lag and interference

Morgenstern

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Re: [Notebook] ShadowCraft
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2012, 05:32:53 AM »
For the purposes of a specific setting (in this case the Shadowrun World) I would definitely try to address the core metahuman types as unique Species packages just to simplify reading off origins. I think the investem in time to have a character's Origin read aloud as "Troll Biker" is totally worth the time of scripting a setting-faithful Troll species. It'll just look better on a .pdf page to present all of the races together that way.

The existing Dwarf and Elf packages probably work as-is, but even then I'd give them the once over to see if they could be more setting-faithful.
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Mister Andersen

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Re: [Notebook] ShadowCraft
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2012, 08:52:10 AM »
Dwarf
  • Type: Small Folk (1x1, Reach 1). Your maximum wounds are equal your Constitution score × 2/3 (rounded up).
  • Attributes: +2 Constitution, –2 Dexterity
  • Base Speed: 20 ft.
  • Crunch!: Your Strength-based damage rolls inflict an additional +1 damage.
  • Darkvision II: You gain the darkvision II quality.
  • If I Recall…: You gain a +5 bonus on all knowledge checks if you have 4 or more ranks in the skill being used.
  • Improved stability: You are considered 1 Size category larger for the purpose of carrying capacity, trample attacks, and resisting Bull Rush and Trip attempts so long as you're standing firmly on the ground and not climbing, flying, or riding.
  • Iron Gut: You gain an insight bonus equal to your Constitution modifier with saves against disease and poisons (minimum +1).
  • Pull Together: You automatically succeed on cooperative checks where you are the helper if you have at least 4 ranks in the skill being used and the leader is a teammate or shares your alignment.
  • Restricted Actions: Kick attacks, as well as Jump and Swim checks you make are considered untrained.


Elf
  • Type: Medium Folk (1x1, Reach 1). Your maximum wounds are equal your Constitution score.
  • Attributes: +2 Charisma
  • Base Speed: 40 ft.
  • Agile Defence: Your base Defence increases by 1.
  • Aloof: Your error range increases by 2 when making Impress & Sense Motive checks targeting characters of other species, and the cost to activate an error is reduced by 1 die.
  • Charming: Once per session, you may improve the disposition of any single non-adversary NPC by 5.
  • Darkvision I: You ignore the effects of dim and faint lighting.
  • Natural Elegance: Your appearance modifier increases by +1.


Ork
  • Type: Medium Folk (1x1, Reach 1). Your maximum wounds are equal your Constitution score.
  • Attributes: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, –2 higher of Intelligence or Charisma (choice if tie)
  • Base Speed: 30 ft.
  • Close Ranks: You gain a +2 morale bonus to your defence and all saving throws if there are at least 2 other characters who share your Alignment adjacent to you.
  • Darkvision I: You ignore the effects of dim and faint lighting.
  • Hearty Appetite: You benefit from the first 2 food and 2 drink you consume each day.
  • Pull Together: You automatically succeed on cooperative checks where you are the helper if you have at least 4 ranks in the skill being used and the leader is a team-mate or shares your alignment.
  • Reviled: The starting Disposition of non-Goblinised decreases by 10.


Troll
  • Type: Large Folk (1x1, Reach 2). Your maximum wounds are equal your Constitution score × 1.5 (rounded up).
  • Attributes: +4 Strength, +2 Constitution, –2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma
  • Base Speed: 30 ft.
  • Darkvision II: You gain the darkvision II quality.
  • Lumbering: You suffer a –2 to all Reflex saves, and become flanked any time two opponents are adjacent to you.
  • Natural Attack: You gain the Slam I attack. If you gain a natural attack from multiple sources, the attack’s grade becomes equal to the highest single grade +1 per additional benefit granting the same attack, to a maximum of V (e.g. Bite IV, Bite III and Bite I become Bite V).
  • Reviled: The starting Disposition of non-Goblinised decreases by 10.
  • Thick Hide: You are considered to be wearing partial armour that provides Damage Reduction 2. This damage reduction does not stack with other armour (only the best protection applies while wearing additional armour).
  • Uneducated: You suffer a –4 penalty when making Knowledge checks.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 01:12:47 PM by Mister Andersen »

Morgenstern

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Re: [Notebook] ShadowCraft
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2012, 09:09:43 AM »
Its been too long since I've played Shadowrun to comment on the specifics of those spieces, but yes, exactly: having a page like that to show your players at the introduction of the campaign would be a great tool. For more elaborate (read "Aegis-class") presentations you might have a booklet with one race per page, leading with in-setting info/descriptions and soft stats (like height and weight ranges) and ending with the Species block.

The nice thing I find with 1-per-page presentations is it's less painful to insert additional pages later rather than having to re-layout everything in a section ;D.
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Sletchman

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Re: [Notebook] ShadowCraft
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2012, 11:54:54 AM »
Its been too long since I've played Shadowrun to comment on the specifics of those spieces, but yes, exactly: having a page like that to show your players at the introduction of the campaign would be a great tool. For more elaborate (read "Aegis-class") presentations you might have a booklet with one race per page, leading with in-setting info/descriptions and soft stats (like height and weight ranges) and ending with the Species block.

The nice thing I find with 1-per-page presentations is it's less painful to insert additional pages later rather than having to re-layout everything in a section ;D.

I was always partial to the World of Darkness method of laying out, you open up to a two page spread that has not just stats, but also their views on each of the other cultures in the setting.  It's nice that at a glance you can see that you'd have a pseudo "Reviled vs [X]" or whatever.  I'll probably do something similar next time I run fantasy (which won't be for a long time).

ludomastro

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Re: [Notebook] ShadowCraft
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2012, 12:08:58 PM »
@ Mr. A

I'll need to let those species soak for a bit before I comment.  However, I had a few questions:
  • Why do orcs and dwarves get the Pull Together ability?
  • Why have trolls be Lumbering?
  • Why give trolls Uneducated instead of an intelligence penalty?

Mister Andersen

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Re: [Notebook] ShadowCraft
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2012, 01:11:26 PM »
@ Mr. A

I'll need to let those species soak for a bit before I comment.  However, I had a few questions:
  • Why do orcs and dwarves get the Pull Together ability?
  • Why have trolls be Lumbering?
  • Why give trolls Uneducated instead of an intelligence penalty?
I've been reading the fluff on them, and both are presented as socially-cooperative cultures. For the dwarves it's a genetically ingrained work ethic that lets them pull off surprising accomplishments and which is key to their being by far the most accepted of the meta humans. For the Orks, they spawn multiple children in short order and form complex extended family groups -- which requires a good deal of pulling together.

Trolls get lumbering because they're less agile and it balances their extended reach. They're also not stupid, but they do tend towards a lack of education -- and I thought it was more interesting than sticking them with yet another stat modifier

ludomastro

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Re: [Notebook] ShadowCraft
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2012, 11:00:20 PM »
I've been reading the fluff on them, and both [dwarves and orcs] are presented as socially-cooperative cultures. For the dwarves it's a genetically ingrained work ethic that lets them pull off surprising accomplishments and which is key to their being by far the most accepted of the meta humans. For the Orks, they spawn multiple children in short order and form complex extended family groups -- which requires a good deal of pulling together.

Trolls get lumbering because they're less agile and it balances their extended reach. They're also not stupid, but they do tend towards a lack of education -- and I thought it was more interesting than sticking them with yet another stat modifier

OK, I can see your logic.  I'm mostly inclined to go with it; however, there are a few things that give me pause.  Please note it's late for me so I'm not going to try to address a fix right now.  I'll look at that tomorrow since I'm off work.

Also, are Close Ranks, Pull Together, and Uneducated your own design?  I didn't see them on the wiki, but I like them.

Dwarves
I'm a little concerned that the 20ft movement and a -2 Dex plays too heavily into the fantasy tropes about dwarves being slow.  Throw in Restricted Actions and it's Gimli all over again.  I'd like to see some type of boost to Will saves as well.

Elves
Perfect.  I'm calling this one done.

Orcs
I'm having trouble seeing the Close Ranks ability.  I'm guessing that you're bouncing that off the culture as presented in some of the fluff?  Also, I'm tempted to give orcs the same Uneducated penalty as trolls b/c of the setting; given that they are minorities and all.  However, I don't want orcs and trolls to be copies of each other either.  More thought needed.

Trolls
I assume Slam I is meant to model the sheer physical power of the troll?  If so, I like it.  Would you see the Uneducated penalty applying to knowledge checks based off interests like Local Gangs?  If so, this is a little concerning.  In many cases, trolls lack book knowledge but have a high degree of street skills - mostly because it's one of the few avenues open for them.

ludomastro

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Re: [Notebook] ShadowCraft
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2012, 11:21:24 PM »
I scanned through the FC classes and feel that they are mostly good to go.  Feedback is always welcome.

Assassin - social infiltrator / killer
Burglar - doesn't get much more iconic
Captain - Hannibal from the A-team always comes to mind and that show - despite the silliness - was basically a kid friendly shadowrun.
Courtier - Fixer/Johnson types along with the party Face
Explorer - Not exactly sure how to classify this one but I like the class, so it stays for now.
Keeper - A low combatant specialist.  Sounds like a possible hacker to me.
Lancer - may need to borrow from Wheelman but this would be the Rigger
Mage - Hermetics, Shamans, Witch Doctors, etc. *
Priest - N/A
Sage - Jack of all trades
Scout - in the setting these guys could be part of a coyote or T-bird crew.  Might need new Terrain feats
Soldier - modern samurai of the streets

* Need to ponder the magic system more.  Spell levels don't fit the setting as well as I would like.  Perhaps when Spellbound hits.

Bill Whitmore

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Re: [Notebook] ShadowCraft
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2012, 11:57:54 PM »
Priest - N/A

* Need to ponder the magic system more.  Spell levels don't fit the setting as well as I would like.  Perhaps when Spellbound hits.

You may be able to adapt Priests into Adepts.  You'll have to reskin some of the abilities, but Paths could work well for the Adept abilities.
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Mister Andersen

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Re: [Notebook] ShadowCraft
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2012, 06:08:13 AM »
OK, I can see your logic.  I'm mostly inclined to go with it; however, there are a few things that give me pause.  Please note it's late for me so I'm not going to try to address a fix right now.  I'll look at that tomorrow since I'm off work.

Also, are Close Ranks, Pull Together, and Uneducated your own design?  I didn't see them on the wiki, but I like them.

Uneducated is. The others are taken from the book.

I've also grabbed a friend's copy of the 4e core book ad it looks like I'm going to have to rework them.

Quote
Dwarves
I'm a little concerned that the 20ft movement and a -2 Dex plays too heavily into the fantasy tropes about dwarves being slow.  Throw in Restricted Actions and it's Gimli all over again.  I'd like to see some type of boost to Will saves as well.

Well according to the movement table, Dwarves ARE slower (and it's trolls not elves who have to higher base speed)

Quote
Orcs
I'm having trouble seeing the Close Ranks ability.  I'm guessing that you're bouncing that off the culture as presented in some of the fluff?  Also, I'm tempted to give orcs the same Uneducated penalty as trolls b/c of the setting; given that they are minorities and all.  However, I don't want orcs and trolls to be copies of each other either.  More thought needed.

Trolls
I assume Slam I is meant to model the sheer physical power of the troll?  If so, I like it.  Would you see the Uneducated penalty applying to knowledge checks based off interests like Local Gangs?  If so, this is a little concerning.  In many cases, trolls lack book knowledge but have a high degree of street skills - mostly because it's one of the few avenues open for them.

Slam is there mostly for the horns, which by and large as shown seem more suited to headbutting the crap outa folks rather than goring them, but given all their bony protrusions Gore might actually be a better choice.

Mister Andersen

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Re: [Notebook] ShadowCraft
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2012, 09:59:01 AM »
Spoiler: Races, Take II • show

Dwarf
[list][li]Type: Small Folk (1x1, Reach 1). Your maximum wounds are equal your Constitution score × 2/3 (rounded up). [/li]
[li]Attributes: None[/li]
[li]Base Speed: 20 ft.[/li]
[li]Crunch!: Your Strength-based damage rolls inflict an additional +1 damage.[/li]
[li]Darkvision II: You gain the darkvision II quality.[/li]
[li]If I Recall…: You gain a +5 bonus on all knowledge checks if you have 4 or more ranks in the skill being used.[/li]
[li]Improved stability: You are considered 1 Size category larger for the purpose of carrying capacity, trample attacks, and resisting Bull Rush and Trip attempts so long as you're standing firmly on the ground and not climbing, flying, or riding.[/li]
[li]Iron Gut: You gain an insight bonus equal to your Constitution modifier with saves against disease and poisons (minimum +1).[/li]
[li]Lumbering: You suffer a –2 to all Reflex saves, and become flanked any time two opponents are adjacent to you.[/li]
[li]No Pain: You may ignore the first fatigued or shaken condition you would gain each scene.[/li][/list]


Elf
[list][li]Type: Medium Folk (1x1, Reach 1). Your maximum wounds are equal your Constitution score. [/li]
[li]Attributes: +2 Charisma[/li]
[li]Base Speed: 30 ft.[/li]
[li]Agile Defence: Your base Defence increases by 1.[/li]
[li]Aloof: Your error range increases by 2 when making Impress & Sense Motive checks targeting characters of other species, and the cost to activate an error is reduced by 1 die.[/li]
[li]Celebrated: Your Legend increases by 2.[/li]
[li]Darkvision I: You ignore the effects of dim and faint lighting. [/li]
[li]Inscrutable: The DC of all Sense Motive checks targeting you increases by 3.[/li]
[li]Natural Elegance: Your appearance modifier increases by +1.[/li][/list]


Ork
[list][li]Type: Medium Folk (1x1, Reach 1). Your maximum wounds are equal your Constitution score. [/li]
[li]Attributes: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, –2 higher of Intelligence or Charisma (choice if tie)[/li]
[li]Base Speed: 30 ft.[/li]
[li]Close Ranks: You gain a +2 morale bonus to your defence and all saving throws if there are at least 2 other characters who share your Species or Alignment adjacent to you.[/li]
[li]Darkvision I: You ignore the effects of dim and faint lighting. [/li]
[li]Hearty Appetite: You benefit from the first 2 food and 2 drink you consume each day.[/li]
[li]Pull Together: You automatically succeed on cooperative checks where you are the helper if you have at least 4 ranks in the skill being used and the leader is a team-mate or shares your alignment.[/li]
[li]Reviled: The starting Disposition of non-Goblinised decreases by 10.[/li][/list]


Troll
[list][li]Type: Large Folk (1x1, Reach 2). Your maximum wounds are equal your Constitution score × 1.5 (rounded up). [/li]
[li]Attributes: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, –2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma[/li]
[li]Base Speed: 40 ft.[/li]
[li]Crunch!: Your Strength-based damage rolls inflict an additional +1 damage.[/li]
[li]Darkvision II: You gain the darkvision II quality.[/li]
[li]Improved stability: You are considered 1 Size category larger for the purpose of carrying capacity, trample attacks, and resisting Bull Rush and Trip attempts so long as you're standing firmly on the ground and not climbing, flying, or riding.[/li]
[li]Restricted Actions: Decipher, Knowledge, Outmaneuvre, Research, and Tumble checks made by you are considered untrained[/li]
[li]Reviled: The starting Disposition of non-Goblinised decreases by 10.[/li]
[li]Thick Hide: You are considered to be wearing partial armour that provides Damage Reduction 2. This damage reduction does not stack with other armour (only the best protection applies while wearing additional armour).[/li]
[li]Uneducated: The error range of your Knowledge checks increases by 2 and the cost to activate an error is reduced by 1 die.[/li][/list]


Mister Andersen

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Re: [Notebook] ShadowCraft
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2012, 12:47:50 AM »
Species Feats

Human Looking
   You're rather more mundane that your fellow metahumans.
   Prerequisites: Dwarf, Elf, or Ork
   Benefit: You may choose to make Blend/Stealth, Disguise/Mask and Disposition checks as though you were a human, but your error range with these checks increase by the number of species-specific feats you possess.

Shredder
   You're unusually... sharp.
   Prerequisites: Troll, Proficiency (Unarmed)
   Benefit: You gain the Gore I natural attack. You also gain a trick.
   Shredder (Unarmed Attack Trick): Your unarmed attacks gains the Armour Piercing quality with a value equal to your starting action dice minus 1.

Wrecking Ball
   You have a knack for knocking things down.
   Prerequisites: Troll, Proficiency (Unarmed)
   Benefit: You gain the Trample I natural attack. You also gain a trick.
   Wrecking Ball (Trip Trick): You may substitute your Unarmed attack bonus for your Acrobatics skill when using the Trip action a number of times per combat equal to your starting action dice.

ludomastro

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Re: [Notebook] ShadowCraft
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2012, 12:45:26 PM »
Mr. A, I really like those feats.

Here's another take on the various species.  I think we are getting closer:

Spoiler: Races, Take 3 • show

Dwarf
  • Type: Small Folk (1x1, Reach 1).  Your maximum wounds are equal to your Constitution score x 2/3 (rounded up).
  • Attributes: +1 Strength, +1 Constitution, +1 Wisdom
  • Base Speed: 20 ft
  • Crunch!: Your Strength based damage rolls inflict an additional +1 damage.
  • Darkvision II: You gain the darkvision II NPC quality.
  • Improved Stability: You are considered 1 size category larger for the purpose of carrying capacity, trample attacks, and resisting Bull Rush and Trip attempts so long as you're standing firmly on the ground and not climbing, flying of riding.
  • Iron Gut: You gain an insight bonus equal to your Constitution modifier with saves against disease and poisons (minimum +1)

    Small bonuses across the board better reflect the source material but I'm still not happy with this one.


    Elf
  • Type: Medium Folk (1x1, Reach 1).  Your maximum wounds are equal to your Constitution score.
  • Attributes: +2 Charisma
  • Base Speed: 30 ft.
  • Agile Defense: Your base Defense increase by 1.
  • Always Ready: You may always act in a Surprise Round
  • Aloof: Your error range increase by 2 when making Impress and Sense Motive checks targeting character of other species, and the cost to activate an error is reduced by 1 die.
  • Darkvision I: You ignore the effects of dim and faint lighting (aka Low Light Vision)
  • Natural Elegance: Your appearance modifier increases by 1.

    I swapped in Always Ready to reflect fluff and the minor bonus to quickness.


    Ork
  • Type: Medium Folk (1x1, Reach 1).  Your maximum wounds are equal to your Constitution score.
  • Attributes: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 higher of Intelligence or Charisma (your choice if a tie).
  • Base Speed: 30ft.
  • Darkvision I: You ignore the effects of dim and faint lighting (aka Low Light Vision)
  • Hearty Appetite: You benefit from the first 2 food and 2 drink you consume each day.
  • Improved Stability: You are considered 1 size category larger for the purpose of carrying capacity, trample attacks, and resisting Bull Rush and Trip attempts so long as you're standing firmly on the ground and not climbing, flying of riding.
  • Origin Skill: Choose one additional origin skill.
  • Reviled: The starting Disposition of non-Goblinized* decreases by 10
  • Unarmed Proficiency: You gain the Unarmed Weapon Proficiency.

    Growing up on the streets means leaning skills to take care of yourself (extra Origin) and you learn how to fight early in life, if only for the last helping of soy lasagna at home on Sundays (Unarmed).


    Troll
  • Type: Large Folk (1x1, Reach 2).  Your maximum wounds are equal to your Constitution score x 1.5 (rounded up).
  • Attributes: +2 Strength, +4 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma
  • Base Speed: 40 ft.
  • Darkvision II: You gain the darkvision II NPC quality.
  • Lumbering: Can be flanked by any 2 adjacent opponents, -2 to reflex saves.
  • Restricted Actions: Conceal Action, Persuade and Stealth checks made by you are considered untrained.
  • Reviled: The starting Disposition of non-Goblinized* decreases by 10
  • Thick Hide 2: You are considered to be wearing partial armor that provides DR 2. It does not stack with other armor, if you gain Thick Hide from other sources it offers the highest DR + 1 per additional hide benefit.

    Being a massive hulking "brute" means that people are going to notice you, pretty much whatever you do.  Sadly, most if not all your attempts to persuade them seem to come across as threats.
    [/spoiler]

MikeS

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Re: [Notebook] ShadowCraft
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2012, 03:30:17 PM »
Some quick feedback on the races (which look very good to me, having not looked at the rulebook in a while):

- I'd be a bit more generous with those attribute bonuses. I have admittedly never tried to create a race with the FC guidelines, but I think a conversion should at least try to hit all of the bonuses. The stat differences in SR are large (I mean, come on, a Troll gets a CON bonus that's almost as large as the regular human maximum; that'd be +15 in FC). They don't have to be as large, since the game balances differently, but if you keep the straightup numbers from SR3 I think you have a good starting point.

- The races in SR are not balanced per their overall bonuses. Balancing happens through the point cost/priority cost. I think it would be perfectly fine to either create base races that achieve SR heights only by adding a feat (eg, base troll is +3 CON, +2 STR, and with feat becomes +5 CON, +4 STR), or by losing an action dice (the latter route balanced races in the somewhat related Earthdawn)

- I don't think the dwarves' wounds should be adjusted for height. Dwarves are among the tougher things in Shadowrun, and reducing their wounds to 2/3 CON makes them squishier than humans.