Author Topic: Walk me through Grapple:Screaming Club  (Read 9803 times)

SilvercatMoonpaw

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Re: Walk me through Grapple:Screaming Club
« Reply #180 on: August 06, 2012, 04:34:19 PM »
Also that unarmed damage would be by the size of the attacker, not the size of the opponent used as in Screaming Club.
I think that's not the case -- Screaming Club reads "The opponent is treated as a club of his Size" so a small opponent = 1d8 subdual, increase die size by 1 per step above Small.
That exactly what I said means.

It's not that it takes a full round - it's that it takes multiple full rounds, and then you only have 2 really worthwhile options (one of which is entirely too good).
Hence my attempts to allow the cool stuff to also exist out of grapple.  Doesn't solve all the problems, but helps.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 04:39:49 PM by SilvercatMoonpaw »

Sletchman

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Re: Walk me through Grapple:Screaming Club
« Reply #181 on: August 06, 2012, 04:51:36 PM »
It's not that it takes a full round - it's that it takes multiple full rounds, and then you only have 2 really worthwhile options (one of which is entirely too good).
Hence my attempts to allow the cool stuff to also exist out of grapple.  Doesn't solve all the problems, but helps.

Which is something I'm totally behind, for what that's worth.  My plans for today are trying to come up with a set of pretty easy rules for adding a bunch of cool stuff as stand-alones.  That and attend an IT lecture and do some Uni work (but the Gaming stuff has priority damnit!).

Mister Andersen

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Re: Walk me through Grapple:Screaming Club
« Reply #182 on: August 06, 2012, 06:25:05 PM »
Round 3:  Win Grapple.  Coup de Grace

Please to show any rules anywhere that allow this?

And you can never end a fight too quickly. The tedium of combat is one of the most offputting aspects of P&P roleplaying

Big_Jim

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Re: Walk me through Grapple:Screaming Club
« Reply #183 on: August 06, 2012, 06:34:18 PM »
Round 3:  Win Grapple.  Coup de Grace

Please to show any rules anywhere that allow this?

Fantasy Craft, page 94 - Wrestling Supremacy.

Bill Whitmore

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Re: Walk me through Grapple:Screaming Club
« Reply #184 on: August 06, 2012, 07:15:55 PM »
Round 3:  Win Grapple.  Coup de Grace

Please to show any rules anywhere that allow this?

Fantasy Craft, page 94 - Wrestling Supremacy.

By the strictest reading of the rules as written, this allows you to Coup de Grace a target someone else has pinned, not a target you have pinned.  Coup de Grace is not a free action and thus is not an option to a participant involved in a grapple.
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Gentry

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Re: Walk me through Grapple:Screaming Club
« Reply #185 on: August 06, 2012, 07:19:04 PM »
Even if one allowed it to work, it's three feats down. I'd hope that by the time you're three feats into a tree, you're pretty hardcore when doing your thing.
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Bill Whitmore

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Re: Walk me through Grapple:Screaming Club
« Reply #186 on: August 06, 2012, 07:31:52 PM »
Even if one allowed it to work, it's three feats down. I'd hope that by the time you're three feats into a tree, you're pretty hardcore when doing your thing.

My general misgivings about grapple combat aside, I'd be inclined to allow any of your allies to perform the Coup de Grace on targets you have pinned.  In essence, with Wrestling Supremacy, you can pin someone so well they become helpless.


In a flight of fancy I was envisioning mini-dramatic conflict for grappling akin to the old chase mechanics.
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Morganti

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Re: Walk me through Grapple:Screaming Club
« Reply #187 on: August 06, 2012, 07:41:40 PM »
In a flight of fancy I was envisioning mini-dramatic conflict for grappling akin to the old chase mechanics.
I would use this for any sort of one on one duel type situation!
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Sletchman

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Re: Walk me through Grapple:Screaming Club
« Reply #188 on: August 06, 2012, 07:48:46 PM »
Round 3:  Win Grapple.  Coup de Grace

Please to show any rules anywhere that allow this?

Fantasy Craft, page 94 - Wrestling Supremacy.

By the strictest reading of the rules as written, this allows you to Coup de Grace a target someone else has pinned, not a target you have pinned.  Coup de Grace is not a free action and thus is not an option to a participant involved in a grapple.

Sure, then you get to explain to any new players that if they want to play a Wrestler, don't bother actually taking the Wrestling feat chain.  Unlike everyone else who has such obvious choices - like the Fencer should take the Fencing feat chain.  On the upside, this discussion has made me realise that there isn't actually any aspect of the games existing grappling rules that I do like, so I can remove them wholesale and start from scratch.  Which is nice.

And you can never end a fight too quickly. The tedium of combat is one of the most offputting aspects of P&P roleplaying

And yet, there's endless complaining that grappling is too powerful and ends fights against BBEG's too quickly.

Bill Whitmore

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Re: Walk me through Grapple:Screaming Club
« Reply #189 on: August 06, 2012, 07:52:26 PM »
On the upside, this discussion has made me realise that there isn't actually any aspect of the games existing grappling rules that I do like, so I can remove them wholesale and start from scratch.  Which is nice.

Welcome to my world.  ;)

At the start of this thread, this was what I was thinking.
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SilvercatMoonpaw

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Re: Walk me through Grapple:Screaming Club
« Reply #190 on: August 07, 2012, 04:38:46 AM »
Well make sure to write a copy for the rest of us. ;)

LordKruelos

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Re: Walk me through Grapple:Screaming Club
« Reply #191 on: August 07, 2012, 06:41:00 AM »
On the upside, this discussion has made me realise that there isn't actually any aspect of the games existing grappling rules that I do like, so I can remove them wholesale and start from scratch.  Which is nice.

Welcome to my world.  ;)

At the start of this thread, this was what I was thinking.

Ok, so assuming you were starting from scratch, what would your solution look like?

Sletchman

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Re: Walk me through Grapple:Screaming Club
« Reply #192 on: August 07, 2012, 06:26:37 PM »
On the upside, this discussion has made me realise that there isn't actually any aspect of the games existing grappling rules that I do like, so I can remove them wholesale and start from scratch.  Which is nice.

Welcome to my world.  ;)

At the start of this thread, this was what I was thinking.

Ok, so assuming you were starting from scratch, what would your solution look like?

No idea how to translate my notepad into text, but it's basically a branching tree currently.  So you inflict [X], which opens up options A, B, and C.  Those could be do and done effects, ending the grapple (EX: Half Action: Grab, Half Action: Throw) or set up effects that open up new choices of their own (Grab -> Takedown -> Arm / Knee bar).  It's pretty raw notes at this stage though.  I want to have a large number of common grappling techniques represented, even if they are feat or proficiency gated (including things like Clinch + Knees), so at this stage I am more figuring out what I want to represent first, and then working on the how.

Goodlun

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Re: Walk me through Grapple:Screaming Club
« Reply #193 on: August 07, 2012, 10:54:40 PM »

so at this stage I am more figuring out what I want to represent first, and then working on the how.

One of the things that is a real pain with this, is it is a fantasy game, a human grappling a human easy to know what it looks like and how it plays out more or less. 
You start talking about grappling Unborn, Dragons, Giant Purple Worms, Rootwalkers then it gets a bit more complicated...

Sletchman

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Re: Walk me through Grapple:Screaming Club
« Reply #194 on: August 07, 2012, 11:01:55 PM »
I actually started with the fantastic because of that.  Climbing up a dragon as it takes flight and wrecking up it's wings in flight, tricks that require multiple arms to use, and being able to scale a considerably larger creature.  All too cool to not find a way to include.