SC 3.0 Q. What do you get when you have a Red Tiger as a Pretexted Secretary?

[TheTSKoala]

 

What's the Koala going on about this time round?  Namely.. Social Engineering.  The art of glib.  Offering millions of worthless answers to get priceless questions.  Person hacking.  etc.  While SC2 had Dramatic conflicts for Interrogation and Seduction, never really had a good fit.  And sure, I could do complex tasks for bluff, intimidate and diplomacy, but again.. it never felt clean.  I was wondering if this time round we get something more to the point for it?

[Crafty_Pat]

What's the Koala going on about this time round?  Namely.. Social Engineering.  The art of glib.  Offering millions of worthless answers to get priceless questions.  Person hacking.  etc.  While SC2 had Dramatic conflicts for Interrogation and Seduction, never really had a good fit.  And sure, I could do complex tasks for bluff, intimidate and diplomacy, but again.. it never felt clean.  I was wondering if this time round we get something more to the point for it?

What are you after here, specifically?

[TheTSKoala]

Bare with me.. I know how and what.. but describing it is a little 'rough'.  Let's say a player wants to 'research' possible ways into Corporation X.  But breaching the system or water boarding a person is deemed unacceptable within the current mission parameters.  So, he decides to Pretext.  Call up, with a fictitious story, trying to gather information.  "Hi.  I'm new local Home Staples Depot Corporate Rep.  And I've got a new bundle that could save you millions!  Oh.. you have a contract with Computer Canada?  Oh, well, I'm sorry.  I'll call back another time."  Then next person.. "Hi.  This is Computer Canada.  Our computer has had a glitch and I want to make sure we don't have any distribution problems.  When were ya'll expecting us next for your maple flavored paper delivery?  Thanks Shug'."  Maybe he calls more than one person with various parts or even completely different stories.  But through that he learns that "Computer Canada - The World's Friendliest Maple Flavored Paper Manufacturer" is the offices maple flavored paper supplier and they're next delivery is Wednesday.

Will there be something to cover that sort of Social Engineering play?  Could it be bluff?  Sure.  But a fail bluff on a single person means I could be rolling DCs all night as he bluffs everyone in the companies roladex.  Looking for more of a "You went with your story.  You were X successful.  You got Y."  Maybe?

(Just an aside.  I love Red Teaming...)

[Jake]

Sounds a bit like Cheating Death, interesting.

[TheTSKoala]

Sounds a bit like Cheating Death, interesting.

Yes.. except two key distinctions.  One.  He doesn't actually work for any of the entities he's claiming to.  He's just using that as a point of trust with the person he's speaking to.  And... two.  You know.. no one has to die.  ..at least.. hopefully.  That'd be one for the books.  His pretext was so bad, it got him killed!

[Mister Andersen]

Honestly, the whole exercise sounds more like a Research check with a synergy from Bluff

[TheTSKoala]

Honestly, the whole exercise sounds more like a Research check with a synergy from Bluff

And that works on the basics.. but what if social engineering a place with security controls and you inquire about something that's a policy?  I'm assuming that wouldn't be covered in Research.. and just to be a real pain in the Koala, let's say they have to do it on the fly, while inside the office building.  Okay.. that may officially be bluff at that point, but I think you get what I mean. 

Only reason I ask is because I totally walked away with someone's log in PIN tonight... and.. strange yet funny.. I instantly thought.. now how cool a moment would that be in an RPG..

[Crafty_Pat]

Why could this not be covered with either an existing Dramatic Conflict (let's assume we still have all of the ones from Spycraft 2.0 for the purposes of this discussion), or a Complex Task?

Please be specific. I'm not currently seeing the need for something entirely new here.

[Sletchman]

I'm not seeing the need for something new so much as I am seeing ways to refine the existing conflicts.  To me, this could (and, indeed, should) be part of the Infiltration conflict.

[TheTSKoala]

I'm not seeing the need for something new so much as I am seeing ways to refine the existing conflicts.  To me, this could (and, indeed, should) be part of the Infiltration conflict.

^ Yes!  What he said.  Not something new, but something to cover intel gathering.  Joe's Deli on 24th, the local Intel Shop may not have a dossier for, but be sure that Advocate in her knowledge of Diplomacy, Bureaucracy, and good looks will build on one.  Just give her a cell phone, 10 bucks and smile!   

The current DCs just don't fit.  They could be force wedged to do it, but it's not pretty when you try.  And Complex task, yes.  You can do that.. but mate.. I'm telling ya.. when it comes to sinking players in, Dramatic Conflicts are where it's at.  And Advocate type of players desperately needed one in my opinion.

[Sletchman]

I think a good first step would be to partly remove the "conflict" from Dramatic Conflicts.  The Infiltration one is ideal for this, but assumes active and planned opposition.  So for early stages, I think it should be opposed by basic security protocol (a static DC).

So Strategy: Gone Fishing (PCs try to gather basic intelligence about their target using various quick and dirty ruses, ex: TSKoala's Canadian paper example).  In a normal Infiltration DC that isn't really doable, and even if it were the target would be opposing you by activating a security sweep or something (which just doesn't make sense).

You could then have strategies that require previous strategies ("Through The Front Door" - Requires: Dossier).  You would obtain that dossier by building it (Fishing, Hacking, etc) or through class abilities or gear picks.

Just stream of thought here.

[Crafty_Alex]

Bare with me.. I know how and what.. but describing it is a little 'rough'.  Let's say a player wants to 'research' possible ways into Corporation X.  But breaching the system or water boarding a person is deemed unacceptable within the current mission parameters.  So, he decides to Pretext.  Call up, with a fictitious story, trying to gather information.  "Hi.  I'm new local Home Staples Depot Corporate Rep.  And I've got a new bundle that could save you millions!  Oh.. you have a contract with Computer Canada?  Oh, well, I'm sorry.  I'll call back another time."  Then next person.. "Hi.  This is Computer Canada.  Our computer has had a glitch and I want to make sure we don't have any distribution problems.  When were ya'll expecting us next for your maple flavored paper delivery?  Thanks Shug'."  Maybe he calls more than one person with various parts or even completely different stories.  But through that he learns that "Computer Canada - The World's Friendliest Maple Flavored Paper Manufacturer" is the offices maple flavored paper supplier and they're next delivery is Wednesday.

Will there be something to cover that sort of Social Engineering play?  Could it be bluff?  Sure.  But a fail bluff on a single person means I could be rolling DCs all night as he bluffs everyone in the companies roladex.  Looking for more of a "You went with your story.  You were X successful.  You got Y."  Maybe?

(Just an aside.  I love Red Teaming...)

Sounds to me like a Confidence Game conflict...really, somewhere between non-sexual seduction and "hacking."

BTW, I was working on archetypes for SC3 just yesterday, and wrote one called "the Phreak." It may not make the final cut, but for you Mitnick-lovers out there, it's a solid way to play.

[Agent 333]

YES! A long con should totally be a dramatic conflict. Basically any con job that takes more than a single interaction to pull off. This kind of social engineering could totally be run as a long con.

By the way, I kinda like the idea of "security protocols" being your opponent (not just for this, for a number of Dramatic Conflicts this could work). What you could do is have the defending organization basically just pick its strategies (in secret) in advance, maybe like five at a time, because the open ended nature of DCs, then the player has the opportunity to try and figure out what its strategy is based on its "program" and counteract it.

[Gentry]

I hate to sound like a wet blanket here, but this doesn't really sound like a mechanical check at all if you don't want it to be. It's clever players being clever. There's no real reason not to let them be clever as long as the role-playing is tight and the action at the table is flowing well.

I've been at tables where entire interrogations were simply roleplayed out, no dice needed. As long as the game's not breaking horribly because of a glib player, and as long as the table's gaining entertainment value from the proceedings, it seems perfectly fine to let a clever player Burn Notice his way in or out of an ostensibly secure facility.

[Bill Whitmore]

I hate to sound like a wet blanket here, but this doesn't really sound like a mechanical check at all if you don't want it to be.

You wet blanket, you! 

It's clever players being clever. There's no real reason not to let them be clever as long as the role-playing is tight and the action at the table is flowing well.

I've been at tables where entire interrogations were simply roleplayed out, no dice needed. As long as the game's not breaking horribly because of a glib player, and as long as the table's gaining entertainment value from the proceedings, it seems perfectly fine to let a clever player Burn Notice his way in or out of an ostensibly secure facility.

But I've also been at tables where shy players, who really want to play the smooth talker, could really use a mechanical system to simulate what their characters can do that they themselves can not.