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Author Topic: A Water Path and some other random questions  (Read 344 times)
Lucifers Heaven
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« on: July 23, 2012, 09:52:04 AM »

So...
I have made an alternate Path of Water for a Dark Sun game.
I am actually just a player in it, but we are converting from a previous system (some of you may remember helping me convert my character, thanks again  Smiley) We couldn't use the existing Water Path as the ability to create water at will at first level is way too powerful in Dark Sun and doesn't fit. And a lot of the path abilities assume there is ample water/create it to work. The GM said he is happy for us to try and make the water path for our Cleric. Partly because being a cleric of a Water Elemental was her idea, and partly because she is the only one there is anyway, so it's not a big world building decision, it's kinda part of her character.
So I sat down with her and we brainstormed and I (being the better at working the rules) wrote up what we have.

Path of Water
     Water I: You can manipulate water up to a volume in cubic feet equal to your Water Step2 x 5. You may move and shape this water at will, even against gravity. You may use this water to do the Bull Rush trick. Using the amount of water as your size for bonuses/negatives and using your Wisdom in place of Strength for the attack.
    Water II: When manipulating water you may push out or leave behind anything that is not water (allowing you to purify it, push objects out etc.). With a free action, you may sense all water (including that within creatures) within a distance of your Water Step x 30ft. This is a relatively vague sense and cannot be used to accurately target someone (though you can detect it's approximate distance and direction fairly accurately and you can also therefore detect if it moves).
     Water III: You may pull water out of non-animate things. Allowing you to draw water from plants, the ground or dead bodies. You may cast the Hold Person spell. Instead of needing a Type in common it is limited to anything with sufficient water content (GM discretion). There is no limit to how many times you can cast it, but you may only hold one person at a time and for a total number of rounds per scene equal to your Water Step x 2.
     Water IV: You gain a finer manipulation of water, allowing you to pull things into it (even pockets of breathable air), create eddies, whirlpools and other currents (having a Swim/Ride DC up to your Casting Level + 20). You gain limited manipulation of water within animate things. You may use the Command I spell on anyone you could use Hold Person on a number of times per scene equal to your Water Step.
     Water V: You may use Command II once per scene on anything that qualifies for your Hold Person ability.

Okay... so yeah...
I feel pretty good about it Smiley And yes, it is pretty much a less martial artsy/combaty Water Bender. Who doesn't mind Blood Bending Tongue
It's a bit wordier than most of the other paths, some of the language could use some tightening, and some things maybe need better parameters (how long it takes to draw water out of a body). Some of that I will leave up to the GM. I'm just not really sure how balanced it is.
Anyway, it's in large part made up of stuff that is a bit hard to gauge the power of, add to that us being new to the system, Paths seeming to have a bit variable power and a setting as unusual as Dark Sun and you have a me that is unsure...

Her other Path will be the Life Path as it is written. Though I do have a question about that that is confusing me. Why is it that many other paths gain two level 5 spells once per scene as their 5th step, but Life gains two level 5 spells, but only once per adventure? I realise they are powerful spells, but isn't that already levelled out by their preparation cost? Shouldn't they be treated as an ordinary level 5 spell as they would with a Mage? If they had a reduced Preparation Cost or something then I could understand the difference, but they are unmodified.
This isn't a complaint I am just trying to understand, as it's one of the ones that had me uncertain about Path creation.

Anyway, any suggestions/opinions would be welcome. I am thinking Water V needs more "Umph", but I am unsure as to what to add. Currently thinking something like being able to make everyone she hits with her Hold Person, Command I or Command II becomes sickened for a time or something like that.
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Mister Andersen
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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2012, 11:12:56 AM »

Quote from: Original Path
Water I: You gain a bonus with Reflex saves equal to your Water Step. You may also cast Create Water and Water Walk at will.
Water II: You gain aquatic II and superior swimmer IV.
Water III: You may cast Move Water and Wall of Ice once per scene.
Water IV: You may cast Cone of Cold and Winterís Domain II once per scene.
Water V: You gain the take heart class ability (see page 48).

There's an art and science to building paths. The Waterbending path you've come up with is rather more butch than other comparable paths.

For your first step, I'd go for something like:

Water I: You gain a stance.
     Wave Stance (Stance): You may make a ranged bullrush, substituting Dexterity for Strength, using any body of water within a number of squares equal to your Water step. The bullrush is made using an amount of water of up to your size, and has a range equal to 5 feet times your Wisdom modifier times your Step (minimum 5 feet). You may only take your bonus step and make ranged bullrush attacks while in this stance.
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Lucifers Heaven
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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2012, 10:32:42 PM »

By butch do you just mean too much wording, or too powerful?
If you meant to wordy, then yeah, but I don't see it as a big problem. If unbalanced, the following was my thinking behind it:


Essentially I looked at all the things Move Water allowed and broke it down and spread it over four of the steps. And made it at will. Relying on the scarcity of the substance in the world and it being more a utility spell than anything to reduce the power of being able to at will cast a level 4 spell. And I reduced the max amount of water she could manipulate.
Then we added a few other useful tricks based around the concept that will be useful in that world. Purification, drawing out of bodies and sensing water.
Then added a limited version of a level 1,2 and 5 spell.
So in the end she has a limited version of a 1,2 and 5 spell. A 4th level utility spell (limited by substance access) at will. Can purify, sense water and drain water. And a ranged bull rush, substance permitting.

Whereas a Path that's a little easier to gauge against like Death has the following:
2 extra damage vs living, can crit undead. A level 1 spell at will.
Spells: Two level 2, two level 3, a level 5 and two level 7 all once per scene.
(I find it a bit easier to use as a measure as the spells are given a level to help indicate their power, whereas qualities are harder to judge)


I hadn't thought of using a stance, but that could be a good idea.
While it is kind of like Waterbending it's not actually supposed to involve her being a martial artist, so I'm not sure I'd use Dex. I chose Wis as she is commanding the water through willpower.

I could change the water sense to take a half action to make it a bit more like a Deathwatch style spell?
I still feel like the 5th step needs a bit more to it as she only gains one 5th level once per scene, and with Death as the example that gains two 7th levels...
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