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Author Topic: Spellbound Update: Is that the finish line? Way over there?  (Read 30731 times)
Desertpuma
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« Reply #60 on: August 23, 2012, 06:59:47 AM »

Not sure about the bureaucracy you are thinking of ... although I did know I guy in 2nd Ed D&D who played a fat lazy Conjurer that would create an Unseen Servant just to go get him some ale.
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« Reply #61 on: August 23, 2012, 08:36:06 AM »

I think Sletchman is wondering if there is a spell/are spells and/or class(es) for doing relatively mundane things with magic.
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aegis
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« Reply #62 on: August 23, 2012, 08:43:11 AM »

Isn't it what Ubiquitous Magic is made for? Then you can create a Magicless "Talent" which specifically prevents you from benefiting from this campaign quality ... Reminds me of Codex Alera, that.
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« Reply #63 on: August 23, 2012, 10:02:08 AM »

This might sound like a weird question, so I'll qualify it:  Is there spells, or a class / expert class, for using magic to just do things?

For example: If there's a sort of magocracy, but instead of just the ruler using magic, it's everyone.  To the point where if you can't perform magic you are a second (or third) class citizen.  So magic is used for everything - rapid fabrication (including large scale like buildings and bridges), transportation (floating disc style, for goods), communications, lighting, and food.  Nothing is left untouched.


I initially thought the Conjurer, but class ability wise it doesn't look like what I want (though his school sounds pretty ideal).  The (old) Seer is the same - not the right class abilities to do it, but Artifice definitely sounds promising.  Of course new Seer might be a whole different beast, so it might be exactly what I want.

This sounds like it'd be more of a campaign quality and/or origin ability rather than a class itself.
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« Reply #64 on: August 23, 2012, 01:08:16 PM »

Not sure about the bureaucracy you are thinking of ... although I did know I guy in 2nd Ed D&D who played a fat lazy Conjurer that would create an Unseen Servant just to go get him some ale.

I reckon he's thinking of the Magocracy of Glantri for the original Known World/Mystara Gazetteers.
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« Reply #65 on: August 23, 2012, 01:48:02 PM »

This might sound like a weird question, so I'll qualify it:  Is there spells, or a class / expert class, for using magic to just do things?

For example: If there's a sort of magocracy, but instead of just the ruler using magic, it's everyone.  To the point where if you can't perform magic you are a second (or third) class citizen.  So magic is used for everything - rapid fabrication (including large scale like buildings and bridges), transportation (floating disc style, for goods), communications, lighting, and food.  Nothing is left untouched.


I initially thought the Conjurer, but class ability wise it doesn't look like what I want (though his school sounds pretty ideal).  The (old) Seer is the same - not the right class abilities to do it, but Artifice definitely sounds promising.  Of course new Seer might be a whole different beast, so it might be exactly what I want.
As always, I don't know if this helps but, my campaign world has a little bit of this, smiths can fold the very essence of magic into items, making slightly magical items (chests that reduce the weight of carried items, magically-propelled vehicles, persistent light sources of various sorts, extraordinary supplies or food, etc) but requiring a special "kit" called an Ethereal Crucible (this is actually a kit upgrade), and kits/workshops built with a crucible, including other crucibles, accelerate the speed with which you craft.
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Sletchman
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« Reply #66 on: August 23, 2012, 05:07:13 PM »

I think Sletchman is wondering if there is a spell/are spells and/or class(es) for doing relatively mundane things with magic.

Pretty much, but ideally faster (cause magic, yo).

This sounds like it'd be more of a campaign quality and/or origin ability rather than a class itself.

A lot if hand waving and flavour text and certainly a regional campaign quality (while within this area anyone without an arcane caster level gains reviled for example).  The spells have to exist too, though.  I always hate when NPCs can cast "create big ass dinner party" but you never can, for example (though that's likely just a Heroes Feast - so not a great example).  If a regular human can do it, my players have to be capable of doing it somehow - either by learning a specific spell, or taking specific class levels.  I'm not necessarily asking for classes that do it - just if there will ability to do mundane things magically (even if it's just 3 spells that form a nice "lazy man's trio").

I reckon he's thinking of the Magocracy of Glantri for the original Known World/Mystara Gazetteers.

Never heard of it - it's a combination of an ass-pull and a tiny bit of inspiration from Dragon Age (the Tevinter Imperium is utterly dominated by mages, so I was pondering the logical extension of that idea).

As always, I don't know if this helps but, my campaign world has a little bit of this, smiths can fold the very essence of magic into items, making slightly magical items (chests that reduce the weight of carried items, magically-propelled vehicles, persistent light sources of various sorts, extraordinary supplies or food, etc) but requiring a special "kit" called an Ethereal Crucible (this is actually a kit upgrade), and kits/workshops built with a crucible, including other crucibles, accelerate the speed with which you craft.

That's a pretty cool idea, one that may be stolen used as inspiration at a later point.
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Crafty_Pat
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« Reply #67 on: August 23, 2012, 07:57:25 PM »

The spells have to exist too, though.  I always hate when NPCs can cast "create big ass dinner party" but you never can, for example (though that's likely just a Heroes Feast - so not a great example).  If a regular human can do it, my players have to be capable of doing it somehow - either by learning a specific spell, or taking specific class levels.  I'm not necessarily asking for classes that do it - just if there will ability to do mundane things magically (even if it's just 3 spells that form a nice "lazy man's trio").

Well, it's a pretty safe bet that even with 900 spells there will be some mundane activities that can't be replicated with magic. That said, I have done my best to cover as many conveniences as possible - because a lot of what we see in popular media is just that.

As to release date, we're not there yet - per the mandate we won't be until we're pencils down - but I can say that this is the only creative item on my plate right now. The last few weeks have been entirely gobbled up by Gen Con and related work, and we're off to PacifiCon next weekend, but after that I'm completely free to work on Spellbound for almost a month (leading up to our Guest of Honor appearance at Archon in October).

So yeah, we're well on our way! Smiley
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« Reply #68 on: August 23, 2012, 08:00:25 PM »

Hmm, what would be the lazy mans trio?
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« Reply #69 on: August 23, 2012, 09:06:02 PM »

Hmm, what would be the lazy mans trio?
Mage hand to get the beer, polar ray to chill the beer.

Is there a spell that will clean a garment or outfit?

Hero's Feast to avoid cooking.  (Does the uneaten food just disappear into the aether?  That would solve cleanup too.)
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« Reply #70 on: August 23, 2012, 09:20:27 PM »

Hmm, what would be the lazy mans trio?

I'm gonna go with Moving, Building and Providing (the kind of stuff a guy would need to be able to do in a medieval-inspired environment).  In Dungeons and Dragons terms we're looking at Telekinesis, Fabricate and Create Food (eventually Hero's Feast).

IIRC (away from books), Spellbound: Chaneller had Mage Hand I-IV and Telekinesis I-II, which covered the first part, and we already have Goodberry / Hero's Feat for the last.

Building / Fabricate is harder (especially since it was OP as all get out, if used creatively, in D&D).  Unseen Servant does a little of the process - every lazy mage wants an automaton to cook, clean and make ammo - but doesn't cover "Here's a pile of timber" *Fancy Dance* "Here's a ballista" type action, or Pile of Ingots, *Boom*, Armour.  I totally get why those sorts of effects weren't in Spellbound: Seer, or FC Core - they're just so damn powerful and versatile that having one spell do it would break the game.  You also don't want Mages to make mundane craftsmen pointless by their mere existence.  Kinda a rock and a hard place - it's kinda core to source, and it's hard as hell to balance.  I don't envy you, Pat and Alex.

If I'm allowed a 4th, then I'll add Chill Touch / Polar Ray, because you gotta have a cold beverage.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Jim on the chilled beverage...

@Jim: D&D had Prestidigitation that let you clean cloths instantly.  Best 0 level spell ever because that is just pure cool.  And that's why we play casters, right?  To be cool?  It's like the 1 point Perk in GURPS that lets you always have your suit look good - always worth it for a spook.
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spinningdice
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« Reply #71 on: August 24, 2012, 03:44:52 AM »

We used to play 0th level (in 3/3.5) and Prestidigitation in (2nd ed) were free to cast (in 2e mages had enough stacked against them at low level, and we rarely played over 9th, so the mage could always just get up, snap his fingers and suddenly be clean, groomed and smelling fresh.
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« Reply #72 on: August 24, 2012, 07:08:15 AM »

Using magic for mundanity on an ubiquitous basis?  That sounds like invisible, intangible followers (or a personal lieutenant) to me.
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« Reply #73 on: August 24, 2012, 08:12:06 AM »

EDIT: Ninja'd by Jim on the chilled beverage...

@Jim: D&D had Prestidigitation that let you clean cloths instantly.  Best 0 level spell ever because that is just pure cool.  And that's why we play casters, right?  To be cool?  It's like the 1 point Perk in GURPS that lets you always have your suit look good - always worth it for a spook.
BOOYA!   Grin

So, was there a 1 point demerit that makes you look like you just got hit with a wrinkle grenade?
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« Reply #74 on: August 24, 2012, 01:16:31 PM »

EDIT: Ninja'd by Jim on the chilled beverage...

@Jim: D&D had Prestidigitation that let you clean cloths instantly.  Best 0 level spell ever because that is just pure cool.  And that's why we play casters, right?  To be cool?  It's like the 1 point Perk in GURPS that lets you always have your suit look good - always worth it for a spook.
BOOYA!   Grin

So, was there a 1 point demerit that makes you look like you just got hit with a wrinkle grenade?

Of course*.  I guess in FC terms it'd be like that Repulsive Habits** origin ability (which I don't think is in any actual Origins, unfortunately).


* Technically anything from -1 to -15 or so, depending on how severe the wrinkle grenade effect is.
** I'm away from books, so it might be in an origin and I was just mistaken, or I could have misnamed it - I mean that one that gives -1 Appearance.
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