damage reduction

[Krensky]

Yeah, thinking about it, a tank using the Aggro chain, Shield chain, and Sword chain synergizes very well. The chains use the same skill and attribute, You wind up with three excellent stances to change as needed (Aggro for control, Shield for defense, Sword for offence). Decent tricks for different needs.

Hmmm...

Dwarf or Grizzled for talent. Fighter, Shield-bearer, or Peasant for specialty. Soldier obviously.

[Sletchman]

Otherwise you could easily get DR in the high teens (you can get pretty easily 6-10 with both armour and thick hide alone, so combine those...).

How do you get 6-10 with thick hide alone?

Standard:
Race*: 2/3
Draconic Heritage: 3
Armour B/M/S: + 2
Total: 3 + 1 + 2 = 6 (while naked - and all the other benefits of Armour B/M/S at all times)

* Dwarf (2), Orc + Western Horde (3), Rootwalker (2), Saurian + River Clutch (3).

You could throw in a Heritage (Orc or Saurian + applicable feat) to get +1 more, but it's probably asking at a bit much at that stage.  I've played a River Clutch Saurian with Draconic Heritage and the Armour Chain - walked around naked and still pretty damn hard to kill.  Add that 6/7 to the Dwarf Plate setup in Krensky's post (DR10) and you have DR16/17 (before Soldier) - which is what I meant by my 6-10 in both types (though admittedly, rereading, I could have written it better - like 6/10 in thick hide/armour - to make it clearer what I meant).  But that's why they don't stack, because that would be crazy.

Even without maxing it out, cheap decent armour + Thick Hide 3 = DR7-8.  That's a single feat for any character, or a handful of origins to be almost immune to many weapon types.  It also makes Draconic Heritage a go to feat for anyone with armour for a free +3 DR (which is bad).

[Krensky]

There are a few human talents which provide Thick Hide too, just for completeness.

Also, just to point out that Dwarven Tank suit is 8075s with a Complexity of 32M.

A Keeper focused on armor smithing (the crafting chain, but no other gear feats) will meet the complexity requirement at level 11 and you're looking at more than six months of downtime to make it without further optimizing for crafting or using raw materials.

To further pimp the Tank, Shield Supremacy and Two-Weapon Guard pushes the net Def to +6 before Soldier class abilities. Veteran Adventurer is worth adding if you can squeeze it in for when you absolutely have to block (rolling the save up to three times once a scene).

Getting a little tangential here, sorry.

[Desertpuma]

So Thick Hide from a character's species stacks with the armour they are wearing?

No. Thick hide specifically does not stack with armor, as should be noted in every instance of thick hide.

As per Pat's note above though, Thick Hide and Armor DON'T stack so you could not get the DR7-8 that you are referring to so it is not a free +3 of DR.

However, someone without armor on would certainly feel the freedom of movement. Makes one wonder what is the fastest you can get someone to move with the highest amount of Thick Hide. I'm thinking a Nimble Acrobat Priest of the Travel Path w/Draconic Heritage (& Basic Skill Mastery Robber) at Level 1 -- 55' move with Thick Hide 3.

[foproy]

change nimble for giant and you have a 65 foot move.

[Desertpuma]

You could also switch out Acrobat for Fist, make him a Martial Artist. It would sacrifice the 5' of speed BUT make a spear and polearm genius and he'll end up with a Reach of 4 at some point. A Giant fast moving spear wielding hit anyone on the battlefield menace who has a little bit of natural DR to his cause.

[foproy]

that would be one inspired fighter there.

[Desertpuma]

He would give new meaning to the phrase: battlefield control

[foproy]

didnt they make a feat that allowed large creatures to sneak as if they were medium sized, if so that would make a crazy ninja build.

[Desertpuma]

Guard 1: "What was that?"

Guard 2: "Oh...just a Giant ninja scaling the side of the castle. Think we should tell anyone?"

Guard 1: "I see NOTHING!"

[foproy]

make it a keen glaive with the polearm feat tree you can add three to your dr, and have a keen 8 weapon with the reach.

[Takeru]

An Assassin with an Armor-Piercing Stiletto will still get through it if they're a special, and if they're a standard..well... all that fancy armor doesn't help too much when you can throw around auto-fails.

This is why I love Fantasy Craft; every absurdly stacked super-combo is actually well-balanced and has a counter. Get your Defense super high? Well I'm going to use things that force you to make athletics checks instead. Get your AP very high? Called Shot or upgraded stiletto! Unbelievably high resistance to blunt and edged? Well now I'm throwing my weapon at you and it counts as Hurled!

[Mister Andersen]

What would be the effect of stacking armour on game play?

[The_Grand_User]

Probably depends on how it's stacked; if it stacks full, then it'd get easily out of hand without adjust weapon damage and AP. If it stacked in the same way multiple sources of thick hide stacked, it might be easier to work with.

[Sletchman]

What would be the effect of stacking armour on game play?

It could get out of hand really easily.  Preventative/balancing measures that come to my mind are:
Exponential DP/ACP/Movement Reduction (and added attack penalties) - even on pieces with -0 / -0 / -0 ft.
Options that target armour only target a single specific piece (otherwise Armour Supremacy = +2x DR, where x = Layers).
Grand User's idea of highest + 1 per layer.
Diminishing Returns (that games that I've seen allow stacking have this: DR30 + DR50 = DR65 sort of thing).

The first is a logical one - if you're not sure what I mean, go put on half a dozen jumper's / thickish jackets.  It really gets far worse (and these are items that individually wouldn't hinder you at all - and would be hard pressed to even count as armour by the games standards for that matter).  The last three are purely balance.

In fact I'd consider adding something like that to Thick Hide as a little notation. Like: Thick Hide does not directly stack with other armour, and you only benefit from the highest DR.  When wearing armour with a higher DR then your Thick Hide you gain +1 to it's DR value.  Could be worded better though.

Diminishing Returns could also work with thick hide (When wearing armour you gain half your thick hide as additional DR (round down)), but I'd still put a note about the Armour Chain only applying to one of the layers, just for balance reasons.

I'd also probably allow Fittings to stack with Thick Hide (because it makes sense to cover the vulnerable bits that don't have protection, logically) even though it explicitly says you can not.  I'd like enforce the DP/ACP/MP if I did it though - no upgrades to get Heavy Fittings to be an almost free +DR2 (and no "Warm" fitting, either - it's just not substantial enough to grant resistances).  I've just never had a player ask me to combine them, so haven't given it too much thought.



The only things I currently allow to stack armour-layers-wise is Thick hide + Resistances from armour.  Note that I'm specifically not saying DR - I want to be very clear here so that I don't have someone else take a small portion of my post entirely out of context, and respond like I've suggested something that I very cleary have not.

Example (to be completely clear): I've previously allowed (and would again) a Draconic Legacy Saurian player to wear Padded Armour to add the Cold Resistance to their DR from Thick Hide.