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Author Topic: My Little Project: Fantasycraft is Magic!  (Read 2705 times)
MilitiaJim
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« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2012, 08:47:13 AM »

Cutie Mark Crusader and Cutie Mark are rather mutually exclusive...
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« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2012, 05:46:11 PM »

Disclaimer:  I really do no understand this whole "My Little Pony" thing that has kind of permeated the internet - especially adults being fans of it.  So my responses are strictly from a balance / potential min-max perspective.

Understood. I don't really get it either. I did watch the first season because a number of customer and friends said I'd be impressed by it. In a way I am - it's rather refreshing in the ways it breaks the mold for "children's cartoons", much like the WB/Spielberg stuff did back in the early 90s.

Race: Looks perfectly fine, and is pretty close to what I would have given a medium size horse species (the obvious exceptions being Natural Elegance and Cutie Mark).  Beast type makes total sense to me, and from the scene grabs and descriptions in this thread it doesn't seem like they do anything that a Drake (the gold standard for any beast race) wouldn't be able / allowed to do.

Thanks. The cutie mark is really important "in show" and I felt that need to be modeled in the conversion.

Feats:  Cutie Mark Crusader: Why does this let them keep wounds as medium?  I think it bumps the power level a little too high (without the wound penalty, Small is actually pretty big advantage), and it just doesn't make that much sense to me.  I'd take it on almost every character of this species (which is my personal alarm bell).

I was going for "kids bounce, not break". That and the fact that when the character buys off the rep cost of their cutie mark that become an adult (or snotty teen, if you will) and become Medium in size and I thought that would keep the changes to a minimum. Tagged for review.

Sea Herd strikes me as a little too potent, but it's effect is hugely campaign dependant (so I'd be happy to let it go).  The big problem is that with Lead it is functionally a full secondary movement, and a really high one at that.

Well, I watched the first half of the second season opener, and in that we see a stained glass window that states that there are only three kinds of ponies - Regular, Pegasus, and Unicorn. So I'm gonna move the sea herd stuff that over to a side bar, since they don't exist in the show, and this is a conversion of the show, after all. So as a GM Approval Needed sidebar I'll cover that concern the addition of these feats. I guess show creator Lauren Faust didn't have any seahorse pony toys when she was a girl (unlike my neighbor's little sister who chucked one at me and blacked my eye with it).

Sky Herd is like a 3.5pt feat (a little too good) - I say reduce the base to 30ft if you want to keep the size advantage, but personally I'd say remove that benefit entirely and keep the speed where it is (I can't see any reason why they should have the size benefit, to be honest).  Again, this to me is a total go to feat - a single feat that gives you excellent flight is unseen in the basic rules (the next closest is 2 feats deep and costs an action die).

But.. but... the wings are so stubby! Ok, in the name of balance, I'll change it to normal winged flight.

Uni Herd: Not a problem with the feat, but I would change the wording so that it's a Natural Spell.  It make it clear that no spellcasting roll is needed, or spell points spent, and more importantly - it gives you a caster level (which would be my first question about the feat).  Unseen Servant is pretty mellow, so I have no problems with multiple casts, but given it's got a multiple hour duration 1/Scene is probably plenty.  As a bonus, with Natural Spell: Unseen Servant, you could consider bumping Uni Herd.  Maybe always count as having a doctor's bag - since Unicorns are depicted as excellent/natural healers in mythology.

Fixed the natural spell issue - back when I did these feats the first time, I obviously had a brain fart. As to the number of times, I like a multiple per scene mechanic.  Both Twilight Sparkle and Rarity (the two main characters who are unicorns) have, at times, had a "cloud" of objects floating around them, indicating multiple uses of unseen servant to me. As to the doctor's bag, that's not, pardon the pun, the MLP;FiM unicorn's bag. They are the magic users, no the healers. I might go with always have a mage's pouch, but that steps of the Magical Cutie Mark feat's... hoofs. (Sorry I had to!)

Uni Lead: Teleport I is a iffy without a caster level.  Natural Spell solves that problem (as above).  Also consider changing it to Dimension Door - it looks like it does closer to what you want and you might not need to reduce range (1000 ft could be too much though, given you only want the 250ft range).  Also 1/Scene (from natural spell) is probably more balanced then AD/Session.

Done. Except the D-Door is once per species feat, not AD. I'm dropping the Gore II upgrade to pay for the multi-use. Is that a good trade off?

Celestial Royal (Class): Knowledge or Power is inspired.  I'm gonna tuck that away in my bag of tricks for use later.

Woot! I'm happy that I made something steal-worthy. Thanks!

Royalty of All Herds, Regal Bearing, and Marked to Lead all look totally fine - no problems there at all.

That's good to hear. Royalty of All Herds is outright converted from the Transmech master class.

Ruler of the Celestial Herd is a cool ability, but I'd consider giving it a secondary benefit that means that it makes the scene it's used in Dramatic.  Just so the player can use them when they want to / when they think it's important.

After the verbal drilling into my head about "making the scene Dramatic is bad" back in the Baron Expert Class discussions, I was gunshy about doing it here. I'll change it back to my first draft, though.

Hopefully any of that is of use to you, and again - just speaking as a powergamer, not as a fan of the show.

That's two of us. I am both proud and embarrassed by my work on this. But whatever, it's all good.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 06:53:28 PM by Big_Jim » Logged
Big_Jim
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« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2012, 05:47:11 PM »

Also, since I forgot to mention it in my last post - excellent work Big_Jim.  You've done a great job of representing a pretty weird concept in an almost totally balanced fashion.  A few tweaks and I'd allow it in an anything goes type situation (I'm actually starting such a game in a week and going for 5-6 weeks).

Thanks! That means a lot.
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Big_Jim
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« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2012, 05:54:52 PM »

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What happens if you buy the Cutie Mark Crusader feat and then reduce your attributes by 2 to pick up Magical Cutie Mark?  Do you get the mark immediately?
Magical Cutie Mark really needs a "Cutie Mark" prereq - that would solve that issue Blankbeard.
Cutie Mark Crusader and Cutie Mark are rather mutually exclusive...

I disagree. Magical Cutie Mark doesn't say anything thing about granting a cutie mark, it changes it (allowing spellcasting to be chosen). So when you have both feats, you don't start with a cutie mark thanks to Cutie Mark Crusader, but upon buying it with rep (200rep - career level x 10) you would be able to pick spellcasting should you want to. That would be impossible for a player who wants to play a foal "coming of age" over the course of the campaign, with magic as the character's special skill if the both feats were not taken.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 02:43:51 PM by Big_Jim » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2012, 06:46:58 PM »

New Revision link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8FCrAZcFJJDTnpEM2RxeWcyeGc/edit?usp=sharing
Changes:
- Fixed typos
- Sea horse feats moved to sidebar
- Cutie Mark Crusader feat revised (Wounds and buying you mark effects fixed)
- Powerful Cutie Mark feat requirements revised (Cutie Mark now actually required)
- Sky Herd feat revised (Winged flight now makes ponies large)
- Uni Herd feat revised (Spellcasting Terminology fixed) 
- Uni Lead feat revised (Spellcasting Terminology fixed, spell changed, gore upgrade dropped) 
- Ruler of the Celestial Herd class ability revised (now makes the scene dramatic, like it or not.)

**Elegance Personified is red texted for balance issues. Please review and suggest possible replacements.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 02:53:41 AM by Big_Jim » Logged
Sletchman
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« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2012, 11:26:01 PM »

Glad I could help.

RE: Elegance Personified:  I don't think it is necessarily a problem - The Regent has a somewhat similar ability that lets him add Renown to Charisma (and eventually Wisdom) based checks.  So the skill benefit isn't an issue.  The only time it'll present problems is if there's other non-skill interactions of appearance (Bloodstain Resistant conversion, other Homebrew with Appearance = Uses).

The other option is to simply crib off the Regent's style - add Noble Renown to Charisma based checks at 4 as a "just in case" measure, but otherwise it's quite fine.  My only concerns were a sort of future-proofing.
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Big_Jim
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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2012, 02:40:29 PM »

Err... that crib suggestion is actually the regent's Clash of Kings I ability for all intents. I don't want to give the class the Clash of Kings I ability - both for thematic reasons and because it would screw up having both classes to 4th level - there isn't a Clash of Kings III. So, how about  halving the bonus?

Elegance Personified: Your gracefulness and beauty are suffused with your noble spirit. At Level 4, your appearance modifier is increased by 1/2 your Noble Renown (rounded up).

or tweaking it as a different kind of variant of Clash of Kings I, playing off the "gracefulness (DEX) and beauty (CHA)" bit from the ability's fluff sentence?

Elegance Personified: Your gracefulness and beauty are suffused with your noble spirit. At Level 4, when you make an opposed Dex or Cha-based skill check, you may add your Noble Renown to the result. This bonus may not exceed your appearance modifier.
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Blankbeard
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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2012, 05:41:59 PM »

Don't change Elegance Personified without actual play test feedback.  My area of concern is that it's basically another 5 point shift in Disposition for a character who has several others.  Everyone who doesn't hate me loves me. 

All in all though, excellent work.  The downside is it makes me want to represent emotions as conditions and run covert ops Carebears.
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The_Grand_User
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« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2012, 06:23:20 PM »

emotions as Conditions? Hmm, sounds like a idea seed for a complex "social combat" system.
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« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2012, 06:52:22 PM »

Don't change Elegance Personified without actual play test feedback.  My area of concern is that it's basically another 5 point shift in Disposition for a character who has several others.  Everyone who doesn't hate me loves me. 

Well, I do want to future-proof it, and I think it will mainly be used in wacky, anything goes, multiverse style play. Which, in turn, have stuff that may be conversions of stuff. so Sletchman's warning bells about a Bloodstain Resistant conversion ring pretty true.

All in all though, excellent work.  The downside is it makes me want to represent emotions as conditions and run covert ops Carebears.

Heh. I'm not working on that one - it really sounds like work!
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Sletchman
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« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2012, 11:27:56 PM »

Err... that crib suggestion is actually the regent's Clash of Kings I ability for all intents. I don't want to give the class the Clash of Kings I ability - both for thematic reasons and because it would screw up having both classes to 4th level - there isn't a Clash of Kings III.

That's what I meant, but for some reason I thought you wouldn't be able to get both classes (clearly, didn't actually think it through properly).

Quote
or tweaking it as a different kind of variant of Clash of Kings I, playing off the "gracefulness (DEX) and beauty (CHA)" bit from the ability's fluff sentence?

Elegance Personified: Your gracefulness and beauty are suffused with your noble spirit. At Level 4, when you make an opposed Dex or Cha-based skill check, you may add your Noble Renown to the result. This bonus may not exceed your appearance modifier.

I think Clash of Kings shows that each tier of the ability should only add to one family of checks (plus that strikes me as more balanced, anyway), so Elegance Personified I = Dex and EPII = Cha (or the other way around).  You'd have to kill the first Royalty of All Herds to do it though, otherwise I'd just stick to one check type.

You'll still run into the double dipping problem of potentially having Noble Renown * 2 to Charisma checks (which is a little crazy - but you'll be 19th level, so I wonder if that's actually a real problem).

Quote
So, how about  halving the bonus?

Elegance Personified: Your gracefulness and beauty are suffused with your noble spirit. At Level 4, your appearance modifier is increased by 1/2 your Noble Renown (rounded up).

Could work.  Looking at an X value of 2 - 6.  Except for things like "Counts as chance feats" (which is insane anyway) it shouldn't present a problem.  It's good, but not crazy - all the stuff I can quickly imagine functioning off it won't spiral out of control either (I wouldn't have a problem with a high level pony having that +6 to defence in the case of Bloodstain Resistant - it's good but not a gamebreaker).

Also, it just occurred to me that if you replace "Lead feat" requirement and retype the bonus feat it makes a cool Centaur Noble class, too.
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« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2012, 07:58:16 AM »

You'll still run into the double dipping problem of potentially having Noble Renown * 2 to Charisma checks (which is a little crazy - but you'll be 19th level, so I wonder if that's actually a real problem).

Since you can't normally take levels in more than one master class I'd say it's not going to be a huge problem.  And you always have the option of ruling that a character's appearance isn't relevant to a check.
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« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2012, 09:05:38 AM »

You'll still run into the double dipping problem of potentially having Noble Renown * 2 to Charisma checks (which is a little crazy - but you'll be 19th level, so I wonder if that's actually a real problem).

Since you can't normally take levels in more than one master class I'd say it's not going to be a huge problem.  And you always have the option of ruling that a character's appearance isn't relevant to a check.

So I was right that you can't get both classes.  That's what I get for not double checking things.  Then yeah, no real problems with a double dip if you world it that way (though I still say to not call it "Clash of Kings", just for stylistic reasons).
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« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2012, 02:18:42 PM »

Ok... I'm the dumb one. I forgot the one Master class per character rule. Whoops. However, I've had some serious broney talk being directed at me by a few of my customers, and I think I need to do a few revisions. Here are things that have be brought up (and my somewhat weak reasoning).

1. Why don't all unicorns have the "always have a mage's pouch" ability? They're the magic ones. Rairty works spells higher than level 0 and she definitely doesn't have a Magical Cutie Mark. Her's is for Impress.
Because I couldn't fit them in the feat. Horns are for gorin', and every unicorn on the show has the 'unseen servant' effect.

2. Cutie Mark Crusader should be a specialty and the feat should be "Blank Flank". Why don't you do that?
Because I'm very trepidatious about a species specific specialty. Blank Flank is a better name for the feat, though the flavor text would need to be changed.

3. Celestial Royal should also be a specialty!
See the specialty reason above. Also, there are only two on the show and they're in charge of the sun and moon's movements. By that argument, you shouldn't be able to play one at all! I made them into an empowered leader type, and I think your should work up to that kind of power. A specialist Impress-monkey that gets two 1st level species feats (Ala Sorcerer, but likeable)? Yeah, no pony would ever go any other way.

4. There aren't seahorses on the show.
I made it into a sidebar. What do you want? Ignore it! It's just a side bar! Gah!

5. Pegasi move the clouds and are in charge of the weather. why don't they do that in the game?
If I could fit affecting chart 7.20 Nature's Fury into the feat, I would. I'm not that good. Maybe by reducing the flight speed?

6. I want to play a Zebra. Where's the feat?
Umm, declare yourself striped, take Magical Cutie Mark for your voodoo and talk rhyme in a Jamaican accent. What's the problem?

So, I guess what I'm asking is: I'd like to make solutions for questions 1, 2, and 5. Those concerns are representative of the pony's abilities on the show, and I'd like to think it could work rules-wise.



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SilvercatMoonpaw
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« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2012, 03:21:46 PM »

1. Why don't all unicorns have the "always have a mage's pouch" ability? They're the magic ones. Rairty works spells higher than level 0 and she definitely doesn't have a Magical Cutie Mark. Her's is for Impress.
Because I couldn't fit them in the feat. Horns are for gorin', and every unicorn on the show has the 'unseen servant' effect.
One Hoof: Seeing as how the unicorns' horns aren't shown being used as weapons at any point it could be argued there's no need to simulate that use.
Other Hoof: How many unicorns are actually shown having a terribly wide range of powers?  For all we know the ones who do could have a special feat or Specialty ability for it.

2. Cutie Mark Crusader should be a specialty and the feat should be "Blank Flank". Why don't you do that?
Because I'm very trepidatious about a species specific specialty. Blank Flank is a better name for the feat, though the flavor text would need to be changed.
I thought it was perfect the first time.

5. Pegasi move the clouds and are in charge of the weather. why don't they do that in the game?
If I could fit affecting chart 7.20 Nature's Fury into the feat, I would. I'm not that good. Maybe by reducing the flight speed?
They're rarely shown to do all that much with the ability.  In fact other than an occasional downpour or thunder clap most of the stuff seems to require multiple participants.  Maybe some of the minor abilities could be a pegasus-only skill check to accomplish, and anything bigger is a multi-participant ritual.
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