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Author Topic: FC and 3.X side-by-side comparison of changes  (Read 1431 times)
Jorunkun
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« on: June 15, 2012, 08:33:54 PM »

Hello,

FC newbie here. Has anyone ever done a side-by-side comparison of FC and 3.X DnD?
I.e. what has been removed, changed and what has stayed the same.
I think it would be immensely helpful for all new players familiar with 3.x.

If so, could you please point me to a thread or file?

J.
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LordKruelos
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« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2012, 08:41:34 PM »

I guess that depends on what you mean by "Side by Side"

One of our residents put it very well here
It has been said before regarding coming into FC from 3.x: unlearn what you have learned. Smiley

FC isn't a 3.x variant. It's a total game-engine rebuild. So there are things that are going to "look weird" from the outside and while reading the rules (see the "Warhammers do Subdual Damage" thread elsewhere on these forums--wait, on second thought, don't), but you're well advised to put the rules to use first. Get familiar with how FC's rebuilt d20 system balances before you start changing things to "fit" the d20 "norm" or to better align to "what you're used to".

On some level, that sounds purist and a little harsh, but it's not meant as such--it's meant to save you pain and suffering.   Grin
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Jorunkun
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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2012, 08:49:51 PM »

Sorry, should have been more clear I guess.

I was hoping to find a feature comparison, not an evaluation of which people like better.
I.e., stuff like:

3e: STR adds to melee BAB and damage - FC: same
3e: Armor increases AC, makes you harder to hit - FC: Armor reduces damages, makes you easier to hit

I understand FC is quite different structurally from 3.x and maybe such a comparison is too much work to be feasible. Still, if someone has tried, I'd like to see it (to show to my players).
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tfwfh
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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2012, 09:27:31 PM »

Yeah, that would be an awfully big list, and I'm not sure it would really be helpful anyway.  Here's what I consider some of the highlights of the player-facing differences:

1. Magic items are special bonuses instead of mandatory adventuring gear.  Also, magic items and other prizes cost social influence/standing rather than money, which has the effect of making both more meaningful.
2. Feats are great and you get lots of them.
3. Classes are all distinct from each other and both combat and non-combat oriented classes are present and they are all playable and effective.
4. Action Dice.
5. Vitality/Wounds.
6. Dragons, Giants, Ents, Trolls, and Golems are all viable playable races from level 1, and in the main book.
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LordKruelos
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« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 09:36:04 PM »

I'd think you could gather a lot from just getting your players to look at a sample character sheet and talking about the similarities from that, much of it would be pretty intuitive for 3.X players.

What if you were to take the Iconic characters and use them for that purpose? The character sheets are reasonably well labeled for what to put where while introducing things

Here's a Quick Reference I put together awhile back for New Players sitting down to play FantasyCraft for the first time (usually in my experience having read very little of the book).  

(a quick summary of necessary mechanics, paired with a summary page of Combat Actions, a quick-start that can be included with a pregenerated demo character.)

The Basics + a Pregen character plus the Condition Cards would probably satisfy a lot of what you're looking for.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 09:38:09 PM by LordKruelos » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2012, 06:47:49 AM »

Yeah, that would be an awfully big list, and I'm not sure it would really be helpful anyway.  Here's what I consider some of the highlights of the player-facing differences:

1. Magic items are special bonuses instead of mandatory adventuring gear.  Also, magic items and other prizes cost social influence/standing rather than money, which has the effect of making both more meaningful.
2. Feats are great and you get lots of them.
3. Classes are all distinct from each other and both combat and non-combat oriented classes are present and they are all playable and effective.
4. Action Dice.
5. Vitality/Wounds.
6. Dragons, Giants, Ents, Trolls, and Golems are all viable playable races from level 1, and in the main book.

7. Armor as DR
8. No standard/move actions, but two half actions that can both be used to move or attack.
9. No attacks of opportunity in FCC, but must stop if you come adjacent to foe (reach does not affect this)
10. No iterative attacks in FC
11. Spell point based magic system instead of slots
12. Scene based resource economy
 
Yeah, this list can get pretty long pretty quick, but those are some of the changes I pain to point out for newbies.
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2012, 06:50:56 AM »

13. Lower bonus numbers.
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2012, 12:03:11 PM »

14. mages can wear plate armor.(it just may be a bit expensive)
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Jorunkun
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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2012, 03:44:25 AM »

Thanks for the links and the impromptu list. I guess i'll have to go without.
Still, I'm a bit surprised the Crafty folks haven't done something like this yet.
Maybe it is too much work - can't really say as i'm still learning the ropes here.
Sure like what I'm seeing though.

Thanks again, J.
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« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2012, 06:10:58 AM »

I think perhaps, because when you get down to it, it would be a shorter list that contained all the things that were the same between FC and 3.X. I would suggest assuming nothing is the same apart from the very core concepts, i.e. 6 stats, levels, classes, using a d20 for most things. Pretty much all the details are different. Tough though it is I'd say read the book, and, if you've got 3.X in your head, prepare to be surprised.
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« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2012, 08:39:15 AM »

I think perhaps, because when you get down to it, it would be a shorter list that contained all the things that were the same between FC and 3.X. I would suggest assuming nothing is the same apart from the very core concepts, i.e. 6 stats, levels, classes, using a d20 for most things. Pretty much all the details are different. Tough though it is I'd say read the book, and, if you've got 3.X in your head, prepare to be surprised.

This, mostly. I think the reason there is no list is because it's not the same system, yeah they're both eventually based on the D20SRD if you go back far enough, and a direct comparison of the two seems to imply they're a lot closer than they are, which just causes more problems.
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« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2012, 12:08:31 PM »

The real answer to "What's Different?" is:  Just about everything.

The only thing they really have in common are the very basic mechanics:  Roll a D20, add attack, compare to defence.  Fort, Reflex and Will Saves.  Classes have levels.  Roll Initiative to see what order you go.

Thing is, even those 4 super basic commonalities have differences: Defence and Initiative are calculated differently (class based bonuses for both, armour isn't a defence bonus).  No class has dead levels (look at Soldier vs Fighter for example).  Reflex Save can be used to parry attacks (as can Fort for Shield Block).  This trend continues throughout the system, too - things that are "common" aren't really.

So yeah, just about everything is different - the only thing they truly have in common is that they will use your D20 (as well as D12, D10, D8, D6, and D4).  Which makes such a list somewhat impossible - it would be thousands of points long and end up being far easier to just read the book (forgetting 3.X, and not bringing any baggage or assumptions from it with you).
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« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2012, 11:17:56 AM »

It's worth pointing out that FC is pretty distant in its lineage from 3.5.

Where, for instance, Pathfinder was a straight-up modification of 3.5, FC is more like a fantasy modification of Spycraft (whose lineage in turn was very mixed).  FC winds up being about as distinct from 3.5 as is 4th ed D&D (although going in a very different direction).
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SilvercatMoonpaw
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« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2012, 03:40:54 PM »

15. Even some of the most mundane of the equipment is given useful mechanical stats.

Just putting that out because it always bugged me about D&D bothering to list prices for stuff that didn't actually do anything.
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Dragoon-Darkfire
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« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2012, 08:24:39 AM »

16. Having tools that let you determine what the mood/tone of your fantasy game is.
17. Having a handy mechanic to allow people to not die via bullshit deaths, just cause one shlub got a good hit in.
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