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foproy
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« on: June 13, 2012, 03:17:11 PM »

i was going to do this one, but i like what sletch did.

Quote
Just some thoughts:  Anyone can weild Unborn weapons (as of second printing), so I'm guessing you mean take the Unborn option of having it built into them?  Sounds like a good start.

My original specialty thoughts was they could replace their own with it later as a new "cheat death" option, but putting rules to that seems kind of difficult (prereqs no longer met, max skill ranks change etc).

Building on your idea, if you don't mind:

Augmented
The flesh is weak, and fails.  The machine endures and is strong.
Benefits: You replace a portion of your body with magically or technologically animated machinery.  You count as always wearing Light Fittings and may install a single weapon as if you were an Unborn.  Further, the lower of your Strength of Constitution increases by 1.
Special: In some campaigns this makes you a sort of pariah.  The DM may also make you Revilled, but if he does you gain a Natural Attack related to your replacement components (ex: an Arm gains Slam or Claw, a Leg gains Kick or Trample).

Full Conversion
Through magic or technology, you have thrown off the shackles of evolution to become the creature you choose to be.
Prerequisites: Augmented
Benefits:  You count as an Unborn (or campaign equilivent Robot) for the purposes of any prerequisites (including specialised gear options).  You also gain Burden of Ages and must now be healed using suitable Craft checks instead of Medicine Checks (as well as Tinker instead of Cure spells, if applicable).  Additionally, you count as always wearing Heavy Fittings (these replace your previous Light Fittings).
You may choose to embrace your new nature once, when you level, gaining the Cyborg type.  If you do, your starting Action Dice decrease by 1 and you find it hard to care about pathetic meatbags, suffering a -5 to all Medicine Checks.

I'm inclined to make them Gear feats, rather then Species feats.  But that might just be me.  Also, typing that on a cell phone sucked, so I'll type up the cyborg type later if anyone wants.  In some campaigns Construct will be fitting, but I don't like it as a type (it's way butch).  The character should be affected by Stress damage for a start, since it doesn't have a new mind or anything, just a new case.  Also other tone downs to it's overall package.  YMMV and all that though - the feat shouldn't explode because you let it have construct, though I'd consider adding something to it - like -2 Charisma if you do change it to construct.  Tried to keep it setting neutral so it could be steampunk or chrome.


EDIT: Crud.  Burden of Ages doesn't slow natural healing, which was what I wanted.  /facepalm.
Is there a quality that halves natural healing?  Sort of Fast Healer but backwarwards?
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Deral
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2012, 04:12:43 PM »

Interesting way to go about it, I've done it as a class, but I haven't considered it as a feat before. As my current setting presses toward steampunk I just ported Spycraft's Surgery and added in augmentations as well, but did them as gear.
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Sletchman
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2012, 05:04:47 PM »

My personal inclination is to go mostly towards gear (both "mundane" and prizes), but I certainly want a mechanic in place for type changes.  There needs to be a point where you head towards more machine then man and I want rules for crossing that line.

Also possibly of note, those two feats were literally come up with in the time it took to type them on my cell - given some time to sit and think I might change some stuff around a little.  It would definitely require some setting info though - if augmentation / posthumanism is super rare then feats / origins is the way to go, if anyone can go to the local sawbones then cash needs to cover most of it (though I would never put a dollar value on a type change if I could avoid it).


Also, since I totally forgot...

Cyborg (+5 XP / 3 "Origin Points"):  The NPC is part organic and part machine (magical or traditional).  It takes Subdual damage as an object, and it gains the Light Sleeper NPC quality at no addiitonal cost.  It is immune to Poison, Disease, and the Bleeding and Sickened conditions.  It regains vitality normally, but does not naturally heal wounds and must be Mended with a successful Crafting check using the Medicine rules (Page 77).  All Treatment checks for Critical Injuries must also be performed with the Craft skill


Does 3 points sound fair?  Roughly equal to Plant?  I think it's weaker then plant, so maybe 2pts?
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Sletchman
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2012, 09:12:25 PM »

Just realised I should clarify something: I have a (somewhat new) houserule that will likely become a mainstay - all "Subdual Immunity" is replaced with "takes Subdual damage as an object".

Subdual Damage's entry will be slightly modified to include that objects take any subdual damage from a weapon as lethal damage, and are immune to other sources (cold, heat, tire actions).  It means creatures can be destroyed with hammers while still being immune to getting tired.  If you don't use this house rule then the Cyborg type should be Immune to Subdual Damage.
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Blankbeard
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« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 12:41:32 PM »

I don't think it's that much weaker than the plant type.  I think 3 points is a good call for the type.  If you're going to make it a 2 point type can I suggest changing the Medicine checks to either require Craft (Cybernetics) or to use the lower of the two skills.  That makes it more of an intermediate between construct and folk.



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Sletchman
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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2012, 03:19:16 PM »

My insticts said 3 points (which is why I went with that).  I like the idea of using the lower of Medicine or Craft anyway - just because of what it represents.  That's an elegant little solution right there.

EDIT:  Just not sure how to word it without it sounding clumsy.

Cyborg (+5 XP / 3 "Origin Points"):  The NPC is part organic and part machine (magical or traditional).  It takes Subdual damage as an object, and it gains the Light Sleeper NPC quality at no addiitonal cost.  It is immune to Poison, Disease, and the Bleeding and Sickened conditions.  It regains vitality normally, but does not naturally heal wounds and must be Mended using the lower of either Craft or Medicine skills.  All Treatment checks for Critical Injuries must also be performed with the lower of Medicine or Craft skill.

Sounds kinda iffy to me, but my alternate was "but does not naturally heal wounds and must be Mended using either Craft or Medicine, whichever is lower" (which I'm not satisified with either).
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 03:54:22 PM by Sletchman » Logged
Blankbeard
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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 07:59:16 PM »

"Treatment and Mend checks targeting this character are made using the lower bonus of the Craft or Medicine skills."

How is that?

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Sletchman
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« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2012, 11:26:34 PM »

Cyborg (+5 XP / 3 "Origin Points"):  The NPC is part organic and part machine (magical or traditional).  It takes Subdual damage as an object, and it gains the Light Sleeper NPC quality at no addiitonal cost.  It is immune to Poison, Disease, and the Bleeding and Sickened conditions.  It regains vitality normally, but does not naturally heal Wounds or recover from Critical Injuries.  All Treatment and Mend checks targeting this character are made using the lower bonus of the Craft or Medicine Skills.


Hows that?  Is adding not naturally recovering from Critical Injuries enough to drop the origin cost?  My instincts say probably not, but I'm not married to the idea or anything.
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foproy
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2012, 12:10:12 AM »

actually i got to thinking, that depending on where most of your augmentations are focused making that change the benefits. torso, con bonus and a catfall style ability, legs, dex and speed bosst, and arms, attached weapons, and strength. but i dont knwo how hard that would be to keep track of.
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Sletchman
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2012, 12:19:15 AM »

actually i got to thinking, that depending on where most of your augmentations are focused making that change the benefits. torso, con bonus and a catfall style ability, legs, dex and speed bosst, and arms, attached weapons, and strength. but i dont knwo how hard that would be to keep track of.

I've been pondering a system similar to that for a little bit now (check the Cyberpunk 2.0 thread for some of my random thoughts if you're interested).  Right now though I have to finish my Psionics system for FC/SC and study for 3 final exams, so there won't be much progress for a little while I'm afraid.
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Deral
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2012, 09:06:57 AM »

actually i got to thinking, that depending on where most of your augmentations are focused making that change the benefits. torso, con bonus and a catfall style ability, legs, dex and speed bosst, and arms, attached weapons, and strength. but i dont knwo how hard that would be to keep track of.

Mine are set up similarly to magic items, each augmentation (called Mechanicals, since mine are steampunk-y), has 3 "slots" it can fill:
-A Purpose, or what exactly it is, a fully functional limb, an integrated weapon, a power source, etc
-A Function, it's physical trait, is it a lifting mechanism, does it count as armor fittings, etc?
-And a Style, or what sort of boost does it give, +1 Strength, Superior Jumper 1, +2 Acrobatics?

Any mechanical can have 1 or all of these, anything it lacks it's considered to simply not have a considerable effect.
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Sletchman
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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2012, 07:18:51 PM »

Feel free to go into more detail Deral (I'd certainly be happy to see more).
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Deral
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2012, 09:53:23 PM »

Feel free to go into more detail Deral (I'd certainly be happy to see more).

Well, I would, but I don't really feel my system fits the bill here- I really tried to make prizes more robust in my setting, so a character now has prize "slots" numbering 3x as much as the number of prizes they could normally keep, Mechanicals (augmentations- in this setting they're exoskeletons or complete replacements, nothing in between yet) and Somatics (magical counterpart to mechanicals), along with a handful of other things, each cost 1 slot where most cost 2 or 3, and they're tentatively also limited by attribute (Modifier + 1 max of each, Con for Mechanicals, Cha for Somatics).

The two were written to work opposite each other, mechanicals give physical or more "tangible" bonuses, while somatics give mental or more inherently magical bonuses (doubled hearing range increments, fast healing, +1 appearance bonus). Somatics work similarly to magic items, two parts a Legacy (usually a more direct or defining boost, +1 Wisdom, Darkvision I, Read Magic) and a Prestige (usually a more passive benefit, Heat Resistance 5, Cagey I).

A Somatic with a Legacy and Prestige costs the same amount of reputation (10) as a Mechanical with a Function, Style, and Purpose, but unlike mechanicals, somatics can't be damaged (usually by critical injury) and are much more subtle in appearance.

Anyway, the intent was to have them fall between full magic items and nice gear, as far as scale of power goes- but both standard gear and prizes are really widely expanded in this setting, so the balance might be a bit off- if people are still interested I could put up a thread for it, but most of the baseline rules are here, just a few tables and details missing.
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MikeS
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« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2012, 11:07:00 PM »

Prizes were the first idea I had for cyberware as well, since there is a simple way of calculating the Rep cost, and the in-game function is often similar to a magical item.

I like the idea of changing type as you add enough cyber/steampunk mechanical add-ons.

There might be room for a half-cyber type:
if two limbs are replaced, then 1/3 (1/4?) of all wound damage you take cannot be healed normally and must be treated with mend checks. The attacker may spend an AD when he is dealing wound damage to target the cyber or the meat, in which case all damage is applied to the targeted part, and not divided. If you want to get more complicated, give each limb a damage capacity, or have them make break saves.
Depending on how the system is powered, you may obtain a dependency here (add fuel, or recharge electrically).

The Mend check could both be an advantage or a disadvantage. In a high-cyber setting, getting the mod repaired may take a lot less time (swap for a new one). If cyber is rare, damaged cyber may be much more difficult to repair than stitching up a wound.
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