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 Author Topic: Ledged Calculator  (Read 1052 times)
darkrose50
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 « on: June 07, 2012, 02:42:20 PM »

I have been thinking about reputation.  I think we [my group] should use some sort of formula to determine how much reputation we have.

Here are the parameters I would use for a formula:
1) based on level
2) exponential
3) include ledged
4) cumulative

Here is the formula I would use for reputation gain per level:
Ledged + Level * 5

I made a spreadsheet taking the above formula into account.
* Cumulative B = Base
* Cumulative L = Low [Assassin, Lancer]
* Cumulative M = Medium [Burglar, Courtier, Explorer]
* Cumulative H = High [Sage, Mage, Keeper, Captain]

[table edited out, until I can figure out how to convert Excel to be viewed here]
 « Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 11:35:16 AM by darkrose50 » Logged
enigma1122
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Posts: 12

 « Reply #1 on: June 07, 2012, 04:21:12 PM »

I don't think that Gandalf, Peter Pan, Ash, and Conan combine would get a few hundred reputation combine if they took the Enterprise to wipe out the Green Lantern Corps.

Also 90% sure that is still linear growth, not exponential.
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Gentry
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 « Reply #2 on: June 07, 2012, 05:44:21 PM »

I don't think that Gandalf, Peter Pan, Ash, and Conan combine would get a few hundred reputation combine if they took the Enterprise to wipe out the Green Lantern Corps.

But there's a convention special game scenario in there ... somewhere.
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darkrose50
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 « Reply #3 on: June 07, 2012, 05:46:17 PM »

I don't think that Gandalf, Peter Pan, Ash, and Conan combine would get a few hundred reputation combine if they took the Enterprise to wipe out the Green Lantern Corps.

Also 90% sure that is still linear growth, not exponential.

I am not entirely certain I agree.  I suppose it depends on how you acquire your items in game.

Level 9 D&D Fighter template [625-points]
Renown (page 186) rank 6 [knight | 150-points]
Six average contacts (page 191) one per rank [25-points each | 150-points]
Holdings (page 192) rank 10 [large manor house and compound “keep” |  115-points]
Rank 6 magic item [60-points]
Rank 5 magic item [50-points]
Rank 4 magic item [40-points]
Rank 3 magic item [30-points]
Rank 2 magic item [20-points]
Rank 1 magic item [10-points]
 « Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 05:51:25 PM by darkrose50 » Logged
Krensky
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Posts: 6433

WWTWD?

 « Reply #4 on: June 07, 2012, 07:43:23 PM »

What does D&D have to do with anything? Also, that's 13 prizes, which is a whole lot. Seven more then you can safely hold actually.  Most of which shouldn't cost rep since you don't pay for stuff you acquire via play.

There is a formula for new characters reputation.

10 x Career Level.

There's also one for calculating the reward you get at the end of every adventure.

M + L + O + I

Where M is a fixed value based on the menace of the adventure, L is the character's Legend, O is the number of critical objectives achieved, and I is whatever the character received as instant rewards.

These are both linear. Career wise, by the books guidelines, you'll see that rep reward one a level to level 5, twice a level to level 11, and three times a level to level 20.

Your assumptions are way off and ignore the rules and guidelines for determining Reputation rewards. There's no rep by level in FC either, the game isn't built or run that way.
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darkrose50
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 « Reply #5 on: June 07, 2012, 11:23:36 PM »

1.   Assume that a chart of reputation points by level is desirable as the game master does not want to spend time creating loot.
2.   Assume we are playing in the Eberron setting (high magic pulp setting).
3.   This is a D&D and D20 derivative, and the example given is a template.  The 9th level fighter template has to do with D&D as it is an example.
4.   I know that the game is not written this way, I am attempting to create a house rule to fulfill the needs of my gaming group.
5.   I am doing this as a mental exorcise, something to pass the time, and as something to present to my group.
 « Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 02:36:40 PM by darkrose50 » Logged
Krensky
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Posts: 6433

WWTWD?

 « Reply #6 on: June 08, 2012, 12:12:57 AM »

1. What does the GM not wanting to do part of his job have to do with giving out massively more rep the the rules call for? Heck, it's not even a major part since the NPC generator will roll for you if you can't be bothered to roll or decide on your own?

2. And? I run games in Golarion, which is at least as high magic.

3. That's like saying my Prius is a derivative of a Model T. True, but meaningless. FC is derived from SC2.0, which is derived from Stargate, which is from Spycraft 1, which is derived from D&D3.0. It's part of the same family, but other than the most superficial elements they're nothing alike.

4. All well and good, but what exactly are those needs?

5. Before you go hacking at a system it helps to understand it and your goals. So what is your goal here? What specific problem do you have with the reputation system as written that you want to solve?

Reputation isn't ranked. I assume you mean renown. You're giving these out way fast. A typical high legend character won't be picking up a level of renown until level four unless they are doing only high menace adventures.

Contacts are prizes.

Holdings are prizes.

Magic Items are prizes.

The game is based around Prizes being cool and nifty bonuses, not requirements. So, once more, what specific issues do you have with the system as written that you're trying to solve here?
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Right now you have no idea how lucky you are that I am not a sociopath. - A sign seen above my desk.
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foproy
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Posts: 2260

 « Reply #7 on: June 08, 2012, 12:40:50 AM »

i think this seems like a lazy person trying to get around doing work by creating way more work for himself. also as kren and the others say, prizes are supposed to be cool items and are not needed. i had one character at level three do more damage then most at a comparative to one in dnd that is twice his level and  was loaded with magic items level.  all with out magic items.
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Krensky
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Posts: 6433

WWTWD?

 « Reply #8 on: June 08, 2012, 12:48:22 AM »

I wouldn't say it's lazy. There's no call for a personal attack. Generating rewards is part of the GM's job though, and it's a fairly minor amount of effort. It could be pushed off, but darkrose is giving out way more then even a Monty Haul game does.

Hence why I asked what his specifc problems where and what his goal was in resolving them.
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We can lick gravity, but sometimes the paperwork is overwhelming. - Werner von Braun
Right now you have no idea how lucky you are that I am not a sociopath. - A sign seen above my desk.
There's no upside in screwing with things you can't explain. - Captain Roy Montgomery
foproy
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Posts: 2260

 « Reply #9 on: June 08, 2012, 12:57:40 AM »

true, it just looks like he is trying to get around working out loot which does to me seem s a bit lazy.
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enigma1122
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 « Reply #10 on: June 09, 2012, 01:04:41 PM »

For Eberron Monty Haul, the campaign setting rule to double the number if charms and essences works. At level five I think havIng one or two smaller magic items and maybe a rank of renown is pretty good.
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darkrose50
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Posts: 14

 « Reply #11 on: June 13, 2012, 11:28:02 AM »

For Eberron Monty Haul, the campaign setting rule to double the number if charms and essences works. At level five I think havIng one or two smaller magic items and maybe a rank of renown is pretty good.

This is a setting where magic is literally everyplace: magic trains, flying airships, and waffle irons with little effeets trapped inside.

Aside from that . . . from my point of view prizes fall into three categories (I would track them seperately):
1.   Adventuring utility (combat effectiveness, traveling magics)
2.   Social utility (rank tied to people known)
3.   Where you live / base of operation

I find it odd that this information is pooled together.  Your house and home is not often going to aid in adventuring, neither is your childhood friend, but your magic sword or flying carpet is another story.

In role-playing game in general I would add to the list:
4.   Crafting ability

The ability to make a shoe and make some extra coin should be tracked separately from the ability to stab someone in the face with a fireball.
 « Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 12:14:19 PM by darkrose50 » Logged
darkrose50
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Posts: 14

 « Reply #12 on: June 13, 2012, 11:54:53 AM »

What does D&D have to do with anything?

It is a standard.  A good starting point for a template.  A template in this case is an example to draw from.

Also, that's 13 prizes, which is a whole lot. Seven more then you can safely hold actually.

I would disagree.  See my post above about how I feel about categories of prizes.

Most of which shouldn't cost rep since you don't pay for stuff you acquire via play.

I am attempting to come up with a formula to incorporate prizes acquired during play.  Such items would be included in this amount if the player chose to do so.

There is a formula for new characters reputation.

10 x Career Level.

There's also one for calculating the reward you get at the end of every adventure.

M + L + O + I

Where M is a fixed value based on the menace of the adventure, L is the character's Legend, O is the number of critical objectives achieved, and I is whatever the character received as instant rewards.

These are both linear. Career wise, by the books guidelines, you'll see that rep reward one a level to level 5, twice a level to level 11, and three times a level to level 20.

Your assumptions are way off and ignore the rules and guidelines for determining Reputation rewards. There's no rep by level in FC either, the game isn't built or run that way.

My point is to create a system for how I would handle reputation and prizes.  This is an intellectual exorcise.  I hope the findings will prove to be insightful to my group.

A knight has a rank of 6, that is 100 or 150 reputation alone.
1st | 10 Reputation | Rank 1 or Rank 1
2nd | 20 Reputation | Rank 2 or Rank 1
3rd | 30 Reputation | Rank 2 or Rank 2
4th | 40 Reputation | Rank 3 or Rank 2
5th | 50 Reputation | Rank 3 or Rank 2
6th | 70 Reputation | Rank 4 or Rank 3
7th | 90 Reputation | Rank 5 or Rank 4
8th | 110 Reputation | Rank 6 or Rank 4
9th | 130 Reputation | Rank 7 or Rank 5
10th | 150 Reputation | Rank 8 or Rank 6

Someone could be a knight by 8th level with 10-points to spend left over assuming a reputation rank cost 20-points for the character.
 « Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 01:14:39 PM by darkrose50 » Logged
darkrose50
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Posts: 14

 « Reply #13 on: June 13, 2012, 12:11:20 PM »

1. What does the GM not wanting to do part of his job have to do with giving out massively more rep the the rules call for? Heck, it's not even a major part since the NPC generator will roll for you if you can't be bothered to roll or decide on your own?

He does not want to.  It is not fun for him.  He wants to concentrate on the political happenings of the story.

The reputation and prize rules as written do not fit my ideals of balance.  So I want to make some house rules and figure it out so that it would fulfill my needs while being balanced within them.

2. And? I run games in Golarion, which is at least as high magic.

There is an option someplace about high magic worlds having more magical prizes.

3. That's like saying my Prius is a derivative of a Model T. True, but meaningless. FC is derived from SC2.0, which is derived from Stargate, which is from Spycraft 1, which is derived from D&D3.0. It's part of the same family, but other than the most superficial elements they're nothing alike.

Saying this game is not like D&D seems odd to me.  I feel like I am playing D&D.

4. All well and good, but what exactly are those needs?

5. Before you go hacking at a system it helps to understand it and your goals. So what is your goal here? What specific problem do you have with the reputation system as written that you want to solve?

The groups goals are to figure out how much reputation we should have so we could buy things without the GM micromanaging the process.

My goals are to track prizes in three categories:
1.   Adventuring utility (combat effectiveness, traveling magics)
2.   Social utility (rank tied to people known)
3.   Where you live / base of operation

The game is based around Prizes being cool and nifty bonuses, not requirements. So, once more, what specific issues do you have with the system as written that you're trying to solve here?

I am not a fan of never being able to be a knight, with a keep, with a magic sword, who knows people.
 « Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 12:15:07 PM by darkrose50 » Logged
foproy
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Posts: 2260

 « Reply #14 on: June 13, 2012, 12:34:53 PM »

What does D&D have to do with anything?

It is a standard.  A good starting point for a template.  A template in this case is a an example to draw from.

Also, that's 13 prizes, which is a whole lot. Seven more then you can safely hold actually.

I would disagree.  See my post above about how I feel about categories of prizes.

Most of which shouldn't cost rep since you don't pay for stuff you acquire via play.

I am attempting to come up with a formula to incorporate prizes acquired during play.  Such items would be included in this amount if the player chose to do so.

There is a formula for new characters reputation.

10 x Career Level.

There's also one for calculating the reward you get at the end of every adventure.

M + L + O + I

Where M is a fixed value based on the menace of the adventure, L is the character's Legend, O is the number of critical objectives achieved, and I is whatever the character received as instant rewards.

These are both linear. Career wise, by the books guidelines, you'll see that rep reward one a level to level 5, twice a level to level 11, and three times a level to level 20.

Your assumptions are way off and ignore the rules and guidelines for determining Reputation rewards. There's no rep by level in FC either, the game isn't built or run that way.

My point is to create a system for how I would handle reputation and prizes.  This is an intellectual exorcise.  I hope the findings will prove to be insightful to my group.

A knight has a rank of 6, that is 100 or 150 reputation alone.
1st | 10 Reputation | Rank 1 or Rank 1
2nd | 20 Reputation | Rank 2 or Rank 1
3rd | 30 Reputation | Rank 2 or Rank 2
4th | 40 Reputation | Rank 3 or Rank 2
5th | 50 Reputation | Rank 3 or Rank 2
6th | 70 Reputation | Rank 4 or Rank 3
7th | 90 Reputation | Rank 5 or Rank 4
8th | 110 Reputation | Rank 6 or Rank 4
9th | 130 Reputation | Rank 7 or Rank 5
10th | 150 Reputation | Rank 8 or Rank 6

Someone could be a knight by 8th level with 10-points to spend left over assuming a reputation rank cost 20-points for the character.

first it is stated that you can only have one prize for every point of renown you have that makes it a fact, and not something you can disagree with. now if you wish to house rule it that is one thing. but kren was quoting the rules of the game when he said what he said.
second, this is not dnd it is only loosley related to this. just because the system uses a d20 as its primary die does not make it d20 (see paranoia xp for example.)
third the guidlines posted in the phb for reputation per level is a guideline similar to the one for silver per level. you will get way more renown than that through play once again same with silver.

finaly most nights did not have holds. you may have several knights on one hold. and as far as magic weapons go, even in dragonlance which was based off of dnd, many of the solomantic nights in the books did not have magic weapons. excalibur may have been majic in the legend, but none of the other knights had magic weapons. also most of the need in dnd for magic weapons is hacking your way through the massive hit points of enemies in dnd. you dont have that problem with fantasy craft. many minions you can kill in one or two hits.
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