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Crafty_Alex
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« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2012, 06:40:15 PM »

A new question: How does extinguishing metals work? I don't see anything about it in the Allomantic rules (could be just blind), but it is a very common action in the book. It seems like it would interact strangely with the burn rate/charges rules, though.

Extinguishing metals works the same way it does in the books - when you want to stop burning/kill an effect, you just do. No action required. Sometimes, this will require an Allomancer to remember how much of a metal he or she has burnt in the course of a charge, but we leave that to the player and the Narrator to balance between themselves. Hopefully everyone's playing fairly Smiley
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« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2012, 03:35:29 PM »

Next question!

I read on an old thread on RPG.net that rules for burning metalminds/compounding were written, but I don't see them anywhere in the book. Were they omitted, or am I just blind?

I'd kind of see them as more relevant to an Alloy of Law supplement (which can't come fast enough, by the way), so it would not surprise me if they were held off for there. Smiley
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Crafty_Alex
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« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2012, 04:04:48 PM »

Next question!

I read on an old thread on RPG.net that rules for burning metalminds/compounding were written, but I don't see them anywhere in the book. Were they omitted, or am I just blind?

I'd kind of see them as more relevant to an Alloy of Law supplement (which can't come fast enough, by the way), so it would not surprise me if they were held off for there. Smiley

We had some rules written very early in the initial draft of the rules, but we decided to hold them back for Alloy, since no one in the Final Empire era is compounding and very, very few characters have the ability to use both Feruchemy and Allomancy (the Lord Ruler and hemalurgists being the notable exceptions).
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« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2012, 04:09:23 PM »

That's what I thought, thanks. Smiley

While I imagine your every efforts are focused on getting the physical core books out there (looking forward to it!), is there any official and public status on how the Alloy supplement is doing?
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« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2012, 10:09:13 PM »

While I imagine your every efforts are focused on getting the physical core books out there (looking forward to it!), is there any official and public status on how the Alloy supplement is doing?

Those watching our blog just got an update about the print books, actually. Smiley

The Alloy supplement is underway but it's still early days. It's still far too soon to speak with any authority about when it will arrive, but discussions with Brandon and his team are going great, the cover is looking gorgeous (Ben FTW!), and text is moving right along.

Thanks again for your support!
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« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2012, 06:23:22 PM »

More questions! I've a bit of conflict experience under my belt, and I had a few questions come up...

1) How does 'defeat' in social or mental combat work, with multiple actors? In my case, I had a pair of PCs trying to tarnish the reputation of an NPC, who responded in kind. The NPC ended up bringing one PC to 0 Reputation, but the 'battle' continued. Can the 0 Reputation character continue to participate in the conflict? I reasoned no, analogous to how it works in physical conflicts and saying that they had no social credibility left with which to monger rumors.

2) I must admit that I'm missing something obvious somewhere with how Defense Dice work. Specifically, the distinction between Defense Dice granted from taking Total Defense, versus those granted for taking a diceless action. The latter don't 'appear' until an attack is actually made against them, but I'm not quite sure how that matters.

3) Can the Steel Deflection stunt function against metal 'melee' weapons? The text seems to indicate only projectiles 'in motion' can be affected.

4) I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that it is the case, but supposing two characters get into a contest, one beats the other... each character has an Outcome of (Their Roll)-(Opponent's roll), IIRC. Does the losing character also suffer concordant Complications, since their Outcome is guaranteed to be negative unless it was a nudge-broken tie?

5) How does grouping Extras work with respect to pools of Action and Defense dice? If one extra is attacked, chooses to spend some dice to defend himself, and survives, that places him lower in the resolution order. Does he still get to attack with the rest of the group for the 'teamwork' roll?
« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 07:09:07 PM by JMobius » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2012, 10:10:41 PM »

1) How does 'defeat' in social or mental combat work, with multiple actors? In my case, I had a pair of PCs trying to tarnish the reputation of an NPC, who responded in kind. The NPC ended up bringing one PC to 0 Reputation, but the 'battle' continued. Can the 0 Reputation character continue to participate in the conflict? I reasoned no, analogous to how it works in physical conflicts and saying that they had no social credibility left with which to monger rumors.

From page 182, when you reach 0 Resilience:

• The stakes established at the Conflict’s outset are applied (see page 168).
• The character may gain a Grave or Mortal Burden, as the attacker prefers (see page 184).
• The character suffers one of three fates, depending on which Resilience was targeted

The first normally means that the PC is out of the Conflict as the Conflict comes to an end. However, if the Conflict continues, then the PC would be able to participate but with significant penalties (-2d and Burdens). It would be very easy to inflict more Burdens on such a PC, suggesting that they withdraw.

2) I must admit that I'm missing something obvious somewhere with how Defense Dice work. Specifically, the distinction between Defense Dice granted from taking Total Defense, versus those granted for taking a diceless action. The latter don't 'appear' until an attack is actually made against them, but I'm not quite sure how that matters.

The reason you don't form dice pools for a diceless action is simply practical as you may not need it. So, the Defence Dice are formed when they are needed.

4) I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that it is the case, but supposing two characters get into a contest, one beats the other... each character has an Outcome of (Their Roll)-(Opponent's roll), IIRC. Does the losing character also suffer concordant Complications, since their Outcome is guaranteed to be negative unless it was a nudge-broken tie?

That's my understanding.

5) How does grouping Extras work with respect to pools of Action and Defense dice? If one extra is attacked, chooses to spend some dice to defend himself, and survives, that places him lower in the resolution order. Does he still get to attack with the rest of the group for the 'teamwork' roll?

I don't think so. They act seperately.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 10:43:52 PM by Skywalker » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2012, 09:36:35 PM »

2) I must admit that I'm missing something obvious somewhere with how Defense Dice work. Specifically, the distinction between Defense Dice granted from taking Total Defense, versus those granted for taking a diceless action. The latter don't 'appear' until an attack is actually made against them, but I'm not quite sure how that matters.

The reason you don't form dice pools for a diceless action is simply practical as you may not need it. So, the Defence Dice are formed when they are needed.

Hmmm... I think this bugs me a little bit, in that this implies that there's essentially no defensive advantage for total defense over a diceless action. Diceless actions, if there's any to do, become strictly 'better'.

I don't yet enough experience with the system to tweak it, but I'd be tempted to give a diceless action defender half the pool they'd otherwise get, or something to that effect.
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Crafty_Alex
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« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2012, 11:05:11 PM »

Hmmm... I think this bugs me a little bit, in that this implies that there's essentially no defensive advantage for total defense over a diceless action. Diceless actions, if there's any to do, become strictly 'better'.

I don't yet enough experience with the system to tweak it, but I'd be tempted to give a diceless action defender half the pool they'd otherwise get, or something to that effect.

Not quite so. The big advantage of Total Defense is that you can choose the Attribute you use to defend - in the case of diceless, your defense is based on the incoming attack (thus, to use your Wits to defend against a social conflict, or to use a Standing at all to defend, you'll need to declare total defense). Also, when you use Total Defense you get a chance to declare your Trait use premptively - in the case of diceless actions, your Trait and Tool use are based exclusively on how you react (pg 177).

So there are perks to using Total Defense - but we expect most people to defend using Action Dice, since in this world, the best defense is usually a good offense Smiley
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« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2012, 12:14:01 AM »

Not quite so. The big advantage of Total Defense is that you can choose the Attribute you use to defend - in the case of diceless, your defense is based on the incoming attack (thus, to use your Wits to defend against a social conflict, or to use a Standing at all to defend, you'll need to declare total defense). Also, when you use Total Defense you get a chance to declare your Trait use premptively - in the case of diceless actions, your Trait and Tool use are based exclusively on how you react (pg 177).

So there are perks to using Total Defense - but we expect most people to defend using Action Dice, since in this world, the best defense is usually a good offense Smiley

Ah, okay, this clarifies it for me, thank you. I think what was the confusing factor was that the character in question would have used their Pewter-enhanced Physique for total defense anyway, so it seemed like the diceless actions were effectively costless. Those are some subtle nuances that do make a difference, though. Smiley

As it has sunk in, I'm really enjoying the conflict system. There's a lot of subtle depth to it.
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« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2012, 03:00:08 PM »

Hmmm... I think this bugs me a little bit, in that this implies that there's essentially no defensive advantage for total defense over a diceless action. Diceless actions, if there's any to do, become strictly 'better'.

Leaving aside Crafty Alex's answer, I find Mistborn as a whole promotes taking action. As such, I don't have an issue with doing nothing but defending being only marginally better than doing something and defending.
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« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2012, 03:04:34 PM »

One more question: I don't quite understand if context is somehow relevant to Defense Dice. Suppose that a character takes a diceless action and suffers a physical attack, defending against it (as they must) with Physique. They only use a portion of their available dice, because they know another attack is coming. This one, however, is a verbal attempt to break down their willpower. Do they get to use their remaining dice, or is their defense 'inapplicable'? I'm suspecting the former, but I just want to be sure.

Also, how exactly do shields work? They add defense dice against physical attacks; is this only when total defense of a physical sort is declared, or do you get free extra defense dice when attacked physically and using a shield?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 03:13:59 PM by JMobius » Logged
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« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2012, 06:51:30 PM »

One more question: I don't quite understand if context is somehow relevant to Defense Dice. Suppose that a character takes a diceless action and suffers a physical attack, defending against it (as they must) with Physique. They only use a portion of their available dice, because they know another attack is coming. This one, however, is a verbal attempt to break down their willpower. Do they get to use their remaining dice, or is their defense 'inapplicable'? I'm suspecting the former, but I just want to be sure.

They use the same (remaining) dice. This is what the whole "one stack of dice" thing is about in the core book - once your dice are initially set by your first action, those are what you get for the rest of the round. It's possible they may shift a bit through means other than taking an action - usually down, as is the case with changing your mind after declaring what you'll be doing - but you're still always using the same dice, even when something new crops up for you to deal with that's completely unrelated to what set your dice in the first place.

Quote
Also, how exactly do shields work? They add defense dice against physical attacks; is this only when total defense of a physical sort is declared, or do you get free extra defense dice when attacked physically and using a shield?

Those are bonus dice against physical attacks that can be reasonably deflected with a shield (i.e. attacks the Narrator confirms can be so deflected). You automatically get them for relevant rolls when holding a shield at the ready.
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« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2012, 09:06:06 PM »

They use the same (remaining) dice. This is what the whole "one stack of dice" thing is about in the core book - once your dice are initially set by your first action, those are what you get for the rest of the round. It's possible they may shift a bit through means other than taking an action - usually down, as is the case with changing your mind after declaring what you'll be doing - but you're still always using the same dice, even when something new crops up for you to deal with that's completely unrelated to what set your dice in the first place.

Representing being able to distract someone physically using words. Smiley
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« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2012, 02:51:13 PM »

Clever. Got it, thanks guys. Smiley
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