Guilds

[ghaele]

So, this is an idea i've been brewing in my head for a while. The 'necessity' that has brought me to actually wanting to hammer out rules for guilds is that for games where travel is often involved holdings and contacts can be hard to utilize. I figured guilds would be good additions for being able to access holding and contact benefits while on the road. Rather than simply allowing just that, though, I felt it could be a cool addition to a setting with just a little bit more work. I'm never very good at balancing mechanical cost, so that's why I'm posting here.

The rough idea is that guilds will have a base benefit and a base cost that befits the benefit. Another consideration for base cost should be the availability of the guild,  number that can randomly determine whether that guild is in a certain city (the GM can always decide the presence or not of a guild in a particular place, of course) For the sake of illustration let's make a guild, the Gilded Lilies, which promises it's members will be the most well-relaxed and certainly best dressed/attractive adventurers to hit the dungeon circuit. Their base benefit may be something like free laundry and bathing services (complete with fragrant bathing salts) for members.

Once you pay the base cost, you then get to  purchase your level of involvement using rules for holdings and contacts, perhaps? Any ideas/hints for reputation pricing?

[tfwfh]

I'm wondering: if adventuring guilds are going to feature prominently in your setting/game, maybe it would be best to create reputation tracks for the guilds?  That way you can quantify a character's access and influence in the guild without imposing new costs.

[ghaele]

I could see that, but as I'm designing a setting I want to make it be a viable option without the game being based around it. If the game was based on guilds (a guild) I'd very likely use the renown track idea.

[MilitiaJim]

Along with silver and/or Reputation, the PCs could be called on to exact retribution against the Adventurer's Guild.  Handy plot point that.

[LordKruelos]

This is an interesting idea, mind if I ask some questions to help flesh it out?
It seems before you start trying to hang mechanics on it, there are some key questions worth asking, first about how the system of networked guilds, second about defining a given guild.

So, this is an idea i've been brewing in my head for a while. The 'necessity' that has brought me to actually wanting to hammer out rules for guilds is that for games where travel is often involved holdings and contacts can be hard to utilize. I figured guilds would be good additions for being able to access holding and contact benefits while on the road. Rather than simply allowing just that, though, I felt it could be a cool addition to a setting with just a little bit more work. I'm never very good at balancing mechanical cost, so that's why I'm posting here.

The rough idea is that guilds will have a base benefit and a base cost that befits the benefit. Another consideration for base cost should be the availability of the guild,  number that can randomly determine whether that guild is in a certain city (the GM can always decide the presence or not of a guild in a particular place, of course) For the sake of illustration let's make a guild, the Gilded Lilies, which promises it's members will be the most well-relaxed and certainly best dressed/attractive adventurers to hit the dungeon circuit. Their base benefit may be something like free laundry and bathing services (complete with fragrant bathing salts) for members.

Can a person be a member of multiple guilds?
What makes a guild a guild and not just an organization? What makes it "official"? How do guilds interact with existing political and economic interests?
Are guilds restrictive, only allowing certain segments of a population?
Is the guild system widely distributed? Unevenly distributed (e.g. common in predominantly human lands)? Is the system of guilds old and entrenched (established guilds, with little opportunity for new guilds to be formed), Old and evolving (room for new guilds to form and even old guilds to change or erode), or relatively recent (in which case, what spurred the expansion)?

Based on what you've said here, particularly about the Gilded Lilies, are you intending these guilds to be closer to an Explorer's Society / militant Drones Club / League of People with Disposable Income, Leisure Time, and Lack of Common Sense, which gets to the question of guild origin -- presumably the configuration of a guild will be largely guided by the origin and founding intent. This will also give some information for how widely spread a guild might be (presumably a function of Resources + Effort + Time + Reason to expand)

A "guild" founded with a religious motive, say of providing a network of lodging and support for traveling pilgrims (e.g. the Knights Hospitaller), will have different entry criteria, member dues and obligations, organization and hierarchy, and benefits provided than, say, a guild founded by financiers to facilitate networking and the invention and extension of credit (similar to early Renaissance European bankers), or a guild founded by bored young aristocrats who want to have the thrill of adventuring and killing things without giving up all the niceties of being pampered at home (e.g. the Gilded Lilies)

The questions I'd ask myself designing one of these guilds would likely start with:

Who are the target population for this guild? This will tell you a lot, from the membership demographics to likely resources available, and perhaps what and how much a member might be asked to do.
What is the "official" story or purpose for the guild? What's the "secret" objective(s) (if any)? What does the guild see as its objectives, both near-term (This year, we're doing X) and long-term (one day we hope to achieve Y)
Why was the guild founded? This can start as simple as a one-word Origin (E.g. Religious, Political, Craft, Trade, Leisure, Honor, Exploration, etc) and build from there.
When and Where was the guild founded? When and Where did it spread? This is where you'd be able to tie a guild into a campaign setting. If you've got Spycraft 2.0 available to you (or, for that matter, the Agency and Mastermind books from 1.0), you can get a lot of mileage out of what's been written about creating an Agency/Organization.
How does the guild operate? Is it widely known? Selectively known? Secret? Is it centrally organized (which suggests some form of hierarchy radiating from a central decision-point) or loosely affiliated? How much influence does the guild look to exert over the lives of its members?

[LordKruelos]

I'm wondering: if adventuring guilds are going to feature prominently in your setting/game, maybe it would be best to create reputation tracks for the guilds?  That way you can quantify a character's access and influence in the guild without imposing new costs.

Definitely think it's worthwhile considering what mechanical tools are already written and could be reskinned to suit the concept, if for no other reason than to identify where the gap exists. The existing mechanics I'd think one would want to look at before writing something new for this are: Interests & Alignment, Reputation/Renown (really recommend rereading FantasyCraft: Worldbuilding, the section on NATIONS AND ORGANIZATIONS / IN HIS MAJESTY’S SERVICE (pp. 316-317, seems to address a large amount of what you're looking for, though it might not ultimately be what you want). For more complicated nuts-n-bolts stuff, would also suggest checking the Organization building mechanics from Spycraft 2.0

[Ry74]

If I were going to do this, I'd have not only the dues, but also the idea that getting entangled in a Guild, while giving the PCs a good deal of support from well-connected men, would also open them up to being "asked" to take part in certain Guild-based shenanigans, like backing other recognized adventuring groups in feuds with local authorities, or also cracking down on unrecognized 'scab' adventurers.

[Jake]

I like it. Yet another way to explain to players where the money lost to prudence is going.

[tfwfh]

There is another thing to consider.  Historically, guilds function like a sort of combination of modern day unions, professional societies, and regulatory/licensing agencies.  Their purpose was to protect the profession from unskilled or unscrupulous practitioners, and to provide a sort of lobbying or collective bargaining power for their members.  They would work to ensure that only members of the guild were able to work in the profession, and that all members of the guild were properly trained, usually through a system of apprenticeships.  That way, the profession would be seen to be self policing, and it could escape a great deal of government regulation or interference that it would otherwise be subjected to.  By the same token, the guild would then be able to leverage its influence and reputation to provide services and legal protection for its members.

Assuming that's what you mean when you talk about guilds, then knowing that can inform the design of your guilds.  For instance, because they function mostly by reputation and influence, they really only work if they are a monopoly, or possibly duopoly.  If you have too many guilds with overlapping interests, then they lose their influence within the community, because they no longer have the ability to withhold services (strike) from customers who go outside the guild.  Likewise, they have no ability to force people to join the guild, because non-guild workers have no trouble finding work without the guild's sanction.

What that means in your setting is a little bit flexible though.  It could result in there being a single monolithic Adventurers Guild, or it could produce a Mage's Guild and a Warrior's Guild and Courtier's Guild, and so on.  Your guilds could be regional entities, so that the Red Wizards Guild holds sway in the north and the Storm Wizards Guild is dominant along the coast, etc.  If you're looking to inject some intrigue into the system, then you could have 2 or maybe 3 overlapping guilds each vying for dominance, but all with an agreement to work together to maintain the guild system.

Anyway, my broader point is the same as LordK's; knowing more about how your guilds work and what role they play in the setting and in relation to the PCs will help to inform the mechanics you use to represent them.

[LordKruelos]

Historically, guilds function like a sort of combination of modern day unions, professional societies, and regulatory/licensing agencies.  Their purpose was to protect the profession from unskilled or unscrupulous practitioners, and to provide a sort of lobbying or collective bargaining power for their members.  They would work to ensure that only members of the guild were able to work in the profession, and that all members of the guild were properly trained, usually through a system of apprenticeships.  That way, the profession would be seen to be self policing, and it could escape a great deal of government regulation or interference that it would otherwise be subjected to.  By the same token, the guild would then be able to leverage its influence and reputation to provide services and legal protection for its members.

Assuming that's what you mean when you talk about guilds, then knowing that can inform the design of your guilds.

Spot on, if you're retaining the historical meaning of guild, which was why one of my first questions was "What makes a guild a guild and not just an organization?"

[LordKruelos]

Yet another way to explain to players where the money lost to prudence is going.

GREAT point -- handling "dues" this way means you don't have to worry about the bean-counting unless you want to.

[Desertpuma]

In my home campaign that I have been working on for when I have time to run it, there will be an Adventurer's Guild. The basic genesis of it was an agreement having been reached with those countries that will allow adventurers to explore and keep "gains" obtained from lost finds or potentially gravesites. This is looked down upon by many obviously as the dead should remain undisturbed. ... Additionally, the Guild has to pay a set amount every year to each country it operates in and for anyone not of the Guild who indulges in the activity the offended country takes draconian action against them.

Registering with the Guild and obtaining a charter means the characters can establish themselves as a dedicated organization with permission of the Guild. This allows them to carry an international writ in those countries that permit the Guild for when they go exploring and plundering. They agree to abide by the terms of the Guild (dues mostly, so much silver a year plus the amount to start the charter or to act within the Guild for hire as an independent agent) and the individual country's rules regarding what they do (anything from the ruler gets first pick for himself of the gains to no art or antiquity may leave their borders). The Guild membership can purchase spells, scrolls, potions and certain supplies at a discount providing their local chapter has the one they are looking for on hand. There is also the opportunity for research and knowledge (some of which only comes through alliances with certain priesthoods).

All in all, I hope this helps as figure what else I'll add to it.

[Sletchman]

The plan in my (unfortunately short lived) last fantasy game was to have an Eldar Scrolls inspired setup, with the major professions covered by a guild (official or dirty secret).  Each would have tracks that I called "Standing" (effective rank within the guild) which served the same mechanical function as renown, but also added it's value to disposition of fellow members who you identified yourself to.  I also came up with a handful of fringe benefits dependant on chosen guild (the same way Noble renown has certain favours exclusive to it).

I had: Mages, Thieves, Assassins, Fighters (Mercenaries), Explorers/Cartographers and the Clergy.  It served along side the 3 existing renown tracks and my added "Underworld/Criminal" global track.  In effect: Mages + Clergy = Noble sub-track // Fighters = Military sub-track // Explorers = Heroic sub-track // Assassisn + Thieves = Underworld sub-track.

Dues I handwaved as "that's why prudence" and higher ranking members were allowed to purchase small scale holdings inside the guildhall - so a mid-ranked mage might have a 2 room bed/lab area inside the guild.  I also allowed players to get small added benefits to their own personal holdings - a high ranking Clergyman might set up his own Church and get REP discounts on hiring Priests to staff it (or an assassin gets discounts on putting a poison workshop in his own personal holding, etc).


Like I said though, didn't get to run it as long as I would have liked, so the idea didn't get as used as I would have liked (even just for playtest/balance purposes) and it didn't get 100% fleshed out (since I was adding to it as players came up with ideas in play).