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Author Topic: [Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling  (Read 7938 times)
Mister Andersen
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« Reply #150 on: September 15, 2012, 03:41:48 PM »

It's still there, at least in the fluff, in the multiplayer.

The problem with using standard DR for armour is that standard DR isn't abalative. You might have to be looking at a rule that says "For every attack that exceeds the DR of armour, the DR drops by 1"
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Sletchman
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« Reply #151 on: September 15, 2012, 04:11:02 PM »

Yeah, it's still in the fluff - it's just not supported by the mechanics in either MP or SP.  To be honest, I'm fine with that - shields being dealt with by raw DPS makes more sense anyway, and armour needs to be punched through by a powerful weapon.
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« Reply #152 on: September 15, 2012, 05:50:14 PM »

The other problem with using DR for ME armor is that it doesn't make you immune to anything.
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MilitiaJim
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« Reply #153 on: September 15, 2012, 06:56:43 PM »

The other problem with using DR for ME armor is that it doesn't make you immune to anything.
The only thing I particularly recall Armored enemies being immune to is Concussive Shot, which is just a missile that has a whole bunch of Takedown and does more damage if you improve it.  Shields and Barriers block more and different things.
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« Reply #154 on: September 15, 2012, 07:31:23 PM »

I'm pretty sure they all block everything except damage.  Armored enemies are immune to singularity, lift, throw, and pull for instance.  Shockwave and Charge continue to do damage, but don't send them flying.  Likewise with Concussive shot and Carnage.  And AI Hacking/Sabotage, Cryo Blast, Dominate, Slam.

In fact, to quote the wiki on the matter:
Quote from: Mass Effect Wiki
Stasis is unique among powers in that it will work despite any defensive layers that an enemy has, with the drawback of not directly dealing damage.

The only thing Armor isn't immune to that other ME defenses are is fire, and that's because Armor is specifically weak to it, just like shields are specifically weak to Overload which has zero effect on Armor.
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MilitiaJim
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« Reply #155 on: September 15, 2012, 09:16:46 PM »

Thank you for filling in that gap in my recollection.  Smiley

Maybe "Armored" should be an NPC quality granting immunity or some crazy bonus to resist most effects?
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"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."  ("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool  in the killer's hands.")
- Lucius Annaeus Seneca "the younger" ca. (4 BC - 65 AD)
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« Reply #156 on: September 15, 2012, 10:12:07 PM »

I set up all three ME protections as conditions that grant immunity to ME powers, a bit of protection from crits and damage, and a weakness to a specific damage type.  Since they are things that can be gained and lost throughout a combat (Shields and Barriers at least, I don't think Armor regenerates in the video games), a condition seems more appropriate than an NPC quality.  Eventually you would probably want to back that up with NPC qualities that grant the conditions, but that can wait.
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MilitiaJim
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« Reply #157 on: September 15, 2012, 11:10:08 PM »

Armor can be repaired, but it doesn't regenerate, no.

My principle objection goes against the 10+.5*Damage save to keep a Shield or Barrier up.  That's just math and extra rolling in the middle of combat.  Maybe for Shields and Barriers the save DC could be Damage that adds up until the Shield/Barrier drops?  Better gear can get a bonus to the roll or fail more than one save before just dropping.
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"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."  ("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool  in the killer's hands.")
- Lucius Annaeus Seneca "the younger" ca. (4 BC - 65 AD)
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« Reply #158 on: September 15, 2012, 11:54:28 PM »

I agree and I'd love to hear any suggestions about how to replace it with a method that has less math and/or rolling (especially when its not your turn).
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Mister Andersen
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« Reply #159 on: September 16, 2012, 09:13:21 AM »

A couple of relevant links:

http://www.mediafire.com/?s16u30k62c7io48

http://masseffectd20.freeforums.org/
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Sletchman
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« Reply #160 on: September 16, 2012, 02:17:33 PM »

In ME3, the only armoured enemies are also big.  Brute, Banshee and Atlas.  They have DR85 odd, which makes most weapons outright useless (think DR20 in MC terms).  You could go as easy as "you add your DR to this opposed check" for things like throw / pull etc (so that players in Riot Gear type stuff are pretty resistant to all forms of attack, but are slow and have minimal Defence) or simply handwave it as "It's not armour that stops the powers, it's bulk - you just can't singularity a Brute".

I'd go with the latter, because trying to replicate that level of videogame mechanics at the tabletop adding unnecessary difficulty and changing the core tabletop mechanics too much to be worth the benefit.  Like I said in the Shadowrun thread, capturing the flavour is more important here (especially when the reason for Armour stopping powers is to attempt to built a Rock-Paper-Scissors balance point in their game, so Adepts don't rule the roost*).


*Yes they failed, due to Warp-Throw being able to tear anything apart faster then any other option in the game, but the idea was balance.
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MilitiaJim
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« Reply #161 on: September 16, 2012, 06:25:22 PM »

The size/Armor thing is something I hadn't thought of until you mentioned it, and now I'm just "durr, why didn't I see that."

Adding DR to resisting some powers is a neat solution for some armors and NPCs.

Shields seem to me ablative armor that can soak more damage based on the quality of the shield, but it gets chewed through really quickly and just sorta goes "poof" when hit with electricity.
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"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."  ("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool  in the killer's hands.")
- Lucius Annaeus Seneca "the younger" ca. (4 BC - 65 AD)
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