Author Topic: [Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling  (Read 13970 times)

Antilles

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Re: [Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2012, 12:40:10 PM »
Just a point of clarification here: With Heroic Resistance, PC's are just immune to the turning-NPC part, right? They're still vulnerable to the mind-fuckery of early-stage Indoctrination?
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Blankbeard

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Re: [Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2012, 04:01:25 PM »
Burden of Ages is a poor fit for a race that commonly spends its youth as special forces and party girls.  I think it works well in a species feat if you want to represent the matrons and matriarchs but not so much for the poledancing asari. 

Vorcha, Volus, Elcor and Hannar probably belong in an optional species category.  I am of two minds concerning the Elcor's type.  Beast fits what we see in game, but they are supposed to have reached space before the asari contacted them. Looking at the models though they seem to have hands that would be usable when they sit down.  There may not be enough of a payoff to worry about it though.

Protheans definitely being optional but useful if you're doing alternate takes on the mass effect universe.


Sletchman

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Re: [Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2012, 07:29:14 PM »
Just a point of clarification here: With Heroic Resistance, PC's are just immune to the turning-NPC part, right? They're still vulnerable to the mind-fuckery of early-stage Indoctrination?

I'd go with straight up immunity, but I would still keep certain scenes very descriptive and moody - have them see things out of the corner of their eyes, have knowledge checks make little sense and generally work the scene to have them realise that they need to get out of there now.  No actual penalties/subplots/insanity checks though - probably just a little bit of regular stress damage for certain events.

You could even expand it to a more tiered approach, with say 4 options on a spectrum of Big Damn Heroes to Call of Cthulu.  The end duplicates Corrupting Magic (4 steps and boom - NPC) and the 2nd / 3rd have more rules for stress and insanity from dealing with things man wan't mean to deal with (but no NPC turners).

Mister Andersen

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Re: [Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2012, 11:38:56 PM »
Burden of Ages is a poor fit for a race that commonly spends its youth as special forces and party girls.  I think it works well in a species feat if you want to represent the matrons and matriarchs but not so much for the poledancing asari. 

If you read the Codex, you'll note that it points out that Asari are poorly suited to the stand-and-fight tactics of most other races, prefering hit-and-fade techniques. The fact that it requires longer/more game mechanical effort to regen vitality fits that particularly well. Also, BoA specifically refers to effects, it doesn't affect standard vitality recovery rates as far as I can see. Even if it does, there's nothing about that which particularly impacts partying and pole dancing, which IS affected by their Resolve cap increase (an increase that also plays to my Resolve=biotics use skill mechanic).

Quote
Vorcha, Volus, Elcor and Hannar probably belong in an optional species category.  I am of two minds concerning the Elcor's type.  Beast fits what we see in game, but they are supposed to have reached space before the asari contacted them. Looking at the models though they seem to have hands that would be usable when they sit down.  There may not be enough of a payoff to worry about it though.

There are a lot of conception problems with the elcor as a non-uplifted species, but that aside, I don't see the elcor making non-downtime tool using checks, which strikes me as a reasonable invocation of the beast quality. And yes, they're definitely the least viable PC races in terms of general utility, just remember that there's at least one hanar merc out there that almost managed to take down Zaaed (hence why it has abuilt in garrotte)

glimmerrat

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Re: [Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2012, 11:53:15 PM »
Hanar are great. Just take Blasto, the fictional first Hanar Spectre. A lover in every port, and gun in every tentacle.

"This one doesn't have time for your solid waste excretions."

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Krensky

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Re: [Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2012, 12:50:47 AM »
On the gripping tenticle (with appologies to Niven and Pournell), they Hanar do use the Drell as ground pounders.

As far as Elcor uplifting goes, it already has precedent that it has happened. Not in their  case, admittedly, but still.
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Mister Andersen

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Re: [Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2012, 03:05:59 AM »
Again using the beast quality here works, mostly, to address the strong grip/weak lifting capacity problem. I suppose there is space for a  quality to counterpoint increased stability.

[1.0] Frail: You are considered 1 size category smaller for the purpose of carrying capacity, trample attacks, resisting Bull Rush attempts, and making any checks after the initial check of a grapple.

Sletchman

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Re: [Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2012, 05:47:58 AM »
@Anderson: I've used that at -0.5pt (though with a different name).  Penalties are simply rated at lower cost in the system (often half or less in terms of absolute magnitude), so if the beneficial version is 1pt, the penalty version should be -0.5.

Ex: [-0.5] = -2 Appearance.  [1.0] = +1 Appearance.
[-0.5] = -2 Proficiencies.  [1.0] = +1 Proficiency.
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@glimmerrat: I'd be interested in seeing what your power aquisition idea is.  Might work out for another project (not at all ME related) that I'm working on at the moment.  If you're happy to share, but you don't want to post it feel free to PM or email me.  If not, no problem.

Blankbeard

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Re: [Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling
« Reply #53 on: May 13, 2012, 06:03:47 AM »
If you read the Codex, you'll note that it points out that Asari are poorly suited to the stand-and-fight tactics of most other races, prefering hit-and-fade techniques. The fact that it requires longer/more game mechanical effort to regen vitality fits that particularly well. Also, BoA specifically refers to effects, it doesn't affect standard vitality recovery rates as far as I can see. Even if it does, there's nothing about that which particularly impacts partying and pole dancing, which IS affected by their Resolve cap increase (an increase that also plays to my Resolve=biotics use skill mechanic).

It also gives the reason they don't stand and fight- They don't have the numbers.  "Asari are the finest warriors in the galaxy.  Fortunately, there are not very many of them."   I just don't think the mechanics fit and the world-weary aspect is pretty much anti-asari.


There are a lot of conception problems with the elcor as a non-uplifted species, but that aside, I don't see the elcor making non-downtime tool using checks, which strikes me as a reasonable invocation of the beast quality. And yes, they're definitely the least viable PC races in terms of general utility, just remember that there's at least one hanar merc out there that almost managed to take down Zaaed (hence why it has abuilt in garrotte)


Like I said, I don't think there's much of a mechanical payoff but elcor are built a whole lot like gorillas.  I could see them sitting down (carefully) and using their hands with as much dexterity as any other species.

Sletchman:  At one time I think it was semi-officially stated that the ratio is 1/4, but of course with only half point resolutions it comes out the same in this case.

Mister Andersen

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Re: [Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling
« Reply #54 on: May 13, 2012, 07:10:31 AM »
It also gives the reason they don't stand and fight- They don't have the numbers.  "Asari are the finest warriors in the galaxy.  Fortunately, there are not very many of them."   I just don't think the mechanics fit and the world-weary aspect is pretty much anti-asari.

Which is contradicted elsewhere in canon by their being the most populous organic species in the galaxy, so the only way for that quote to fit is if you apply it to their armed forces as I suspect was the intention and not the species as a whole. Any world weariness being conveyed is I think placed there by the memory of the wording of the elven instance of the ability.

Quote
Like I said, I don't think there's much of a mechanical payoff but elcor are built a whole lot like gorillas.  I could see them sitting down (carefully) and using their hands with as much dexterity as any other species.

It's always struck me as odd that their backlegs are so comparatively underdeveloped compared to their arms. And while they obviously have the capacity for tool use if they managed to escape such a heavy gravity well under their own steam, I don't get the sense it was with the same manual dexterity as the other races.

Sletchman

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Re: [Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling
« Reply #55 on: May 13, 2012, 08:30:19 AM »
Sletchman:  At one time I think it was semi-officially stated that the ratio is 1/4, but of course with only half point resolutions it comes out the same in this case.

Yeah, I recalled having read that but couldn't find the quote, so I just went with some examples to demonstrate my point.  I called this particular ability "Slight Build" (because I have an alternate use for "Frail").

Blankbeard

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Re: [Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling
« Reply #56 on: May 13, 2012, 11:37:23 AM »
It also gives the reason they don't stand and fight- They don't have the numbers.  "Asari are the finest warriors in the galaxy.  Fortunately, there are not very many of them."   I just don't think the mechanics fit and the world-weary aspect is pretty much anti-asari.

Which is contradicted elsewhere in canon by their being the most populous organic species in the galaxy, so the only way for that quote to fit is if you apply it to their armed forces as I suspect was the intention and not the species as a whole.

Yeah, it's in the military tactics section.  I brought it up as explanation why you couldn't use their military tactics to justify the mechanics of BoA.

Any world weariness being conveyed is I think placed there by the memory of the wording of the elven instance of the ability.

The ability is called "Burden of Ages."  You could rename it Slow Recovery or something but it still doesn't really fit asari.


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Re: [Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2012, 01:51:02 PM »
More than just the theme of BoA not fitting, the mechanics don't fit either.  Asari are never presented as being slow or difficult to heal.

Also, I have to wonder how this came up.  I can't find any mention of burden of ages in this thread, except for this argument.
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Bill Whitmore

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Re: [Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling
« Reply #58 on: May 13, 2012, 03:36:57 PM »
Sletchman:  At one time I think it was semi-officially stated that the ratio is 1/4, but of course with only half point resolutions it comes out the same in this case.

Even the examples given support the 4 to 1 between bonus and penalties.

Ex: [-0.5] = -2 Appearance.  [1.0] = +1 Appearance.
[-0.5] = -2 Proficiencies.  [1.0] = +1 Proficiency.

The penalty is twice the magnitude of the bonus while still being half the value.  So a -4 Appearance offsets +1 Appearance and -4 Proficiencies offsets +1 Proficiency in terms of design points.
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Mister Andersen

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Re: [Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling
« Reply #59 on: May 13, 2012, 03:51:46 PM »
Yeah, it's in the military tactics section.  I brought it up as explanation why you couldn't use their military tactics to justify the mechanics of BoA.

And that works how exactly? Their tactics are precisely the sort that folks whose vitality takes longer to artificially refresh would employ. Again, BoA doesn't affect natural recovery rates for vitality, and doesn't affect wounds at all.

The ability is called "Burden of Ages."  You could rename it Slow Recovery or something but it still doesn't really fit asari.

Asari are patient and take the long view. It fits them plenty fine.