[Notebook] Mass(ter)craft 2nd ed: Getting the ball rolling

[MilitiaJim]

I'm pretty sure Shepard starts ME1 about level 7, and goes up from there, probably ending up around level 40, Soldier 20/Grunt 10/Spectre 5/Other 5.

[Krensky]

None of the current master classes have it, but if I remember right I think the legendary X classes could be entered earlier then level 10.

That may have just been the world on fire faction ones though, which the specter really parallels.

[MilitiaJim]

Is there any reason not to make Spectre and/or Battlemaster a 15 level Expert Class?  Well, plenty, but would it be system breaking to do so?

[Blankbeard]

I had been under the impression this was Glimmerat's rodeo, with the rest of us just thinking out loud in case any of it was useful to him.  Maybe that's not the case, and if so, Sletch is right and working out the subsystems needs to happen before we have any idea how species, feats, skills, specialties, or classes will interact with them.  I still think my ME powers as paths idea carries water, and I'll hammer it out and write something up for it, hopefully later today.

@Mister Anderson.  Don't do that, it's rude.  If you don't agree with my point, then respond to my point; don't pick out individual sentences and criticize them out of context.

It's Glimmerat's show in so far as he's done a lot of hard work on the material and making a slick PDF that looks professional.  I think Aegis was involved in this way back too, but I may just be remembering his own PDF projects that had similarly production values. 

That said, there's nothing stopping you from doing your own conversion.  Post it, I'd love to see what you come up with.  Something path-like could work pretty well if you change how the "steps" are acquired.

One thing I'd encourage you to think about in regards to such a system is dropping the Mastercraft Soldier from your mass effect.  Having a combat power tree along with the tech and biotic trees makes it easy to design all six ME classes.  Many of the combat powers map fairly well onto feats with the right special abilities to back them up.

Anyway, start a thread if you want to.  Putting it in its own thread should keep discussion focused and hopefully productive.

Is there any reason not to make Spectre and/or Battlemaster a 15 level Expert Class?  Well, plenty, but would it be system breaking to do so?

To answer this, we need the smiley of the guy running in circles with his head on fire.  I think it's just a matter of there isn't a ready made 15 level skeleton.  It would make the system less neat to be sure, but I don't see any harm in it.

[Mister Andersen]

[I have two problems with making things a master class.  First is the idea that you're removing the idea from the first nine levels of play.  A big draw of the Mass Effect universe (for me at least) is being on a team of galactic scale bruisers who solve outsized problems.   Shepard is the best of the best right at the start.  Wrex is a battlemaster when we first meet him.  Garrus is Dirty Harry with a beak.  Liara and Tali have prominent backgrounds and are quite capable of punching above their weight.  Kaiden and Ashley are the only truly obscure ones and that's forced on them by their role as killable romance options.  Even Kaiden is an unstable biotic heavy.

Again, this is a fundamental flaw of assuming everyone is the same level. Theyaren't. There's no way possible that Wrex, a krogan battle master, is anything but a high level character when you meet him (the same goes for Samara), while both Tali and Liara are undoubtedly lower level than Shep. Like all single player games, ME is governed by the need for the PC to outshine everyone else. You can't carry that assumption through to a cooperative roleplaying experience.

Joe the Plumber versus Reapers could be fun (and effective too, what with all the liquefied colonist the Reapers pump around) but I think playing the first Drell Spectre is going to be more common wish for a starting PC.  If it were me, I'd leave master classes out.

Spectre already is a master class. Becoming a Spectre in game doesn't mean you necessarily need to take levels in the class, which is really just a way of mechanically celebrating the exemplar in a way similar to not having to take the CIA talent in order to play a CIA agent.

However, given that spectres and krogans ARE meant to be elite individuals proven and forged by battle and hardship, it makes far more sense for them to be higher level any way.

On the specialties themselves, if you drop the biotic power requirement, the battlemaster specialty represents Grunt fairly well (maybe change the name to Powerhouse or Bruiser?).  The huntresses in game are also referred to as Commandos.  Pick one for the master class and use the other for the specialty.

This.

[Mister Andersen]

I had been under the impression this was Glimmerat's rodeo, with the rest of us just thinking out loud in case any of it was useful to him.  Maybe that's not the case, and if so, Sletch is right and working out the subsystems needs to happen before we have any idea how species, feats, skills, specialties, or classes will interact with them.

Glim did the 2.0 version, which is a good starting point, and he clearly has his ideas for a new version, but he's keeping quite on them and this is a new beast.

There's also plenty of room of a MAG-based Mass Craft conversion (which seems like it could handle biotics and krogan nigh-invulnerability reasonably well)

I still think my ME powers as paths idea carries water, and I'll hammer it out and write something up for it, hopefully later today.

Yes, show us your idea  Because how you described it doesn't actually sound like the way paths work to date, and sounds more like a new subsystem.

[tfwfh]

I don't want to post this in another thread because I don't want to fork people's efforts.  I certainly don't want to create my own separate mass effect supplement.  If people think this has legs, we can continue to explore it.  If not, then we can move on to something else.  I've finished the Tech and Combat powers, or at least the initial draft of them.  I'm not sure how I feel about some of the combat powers, but then I also don't enjoy playing ME Soldiers, so maybe they're all right.  I haven't gotten into the Biotic powers, but I think there's plenty here to illustrate the point.  I'll work on those, but I'm posting it now in the interests of getting this up so people can see it.

So, this plugs into the system via a campaign quality.  Something like this.
Mass Effect (Permanent)
Characters gain one of the following alignments.  They take a step along one of their alignment's paths every level.

(click to show/hide)

= Alignments:

== Adept
   Paths: Pull, Singularity, Shockwave, Throw, Warp
   Skills:
   Favored Weapon:

== Engineer
   Paths: AI Hacking, Combat Drone, Overload, Sentry Turret, Thermal Blast
   Skills:
   Favored Weapon:

== Infiltrator
   Paths: Cryo Ammo, Disruptor Ammo, AI hacking, Thermal Blast, Tactical Cloak
   Skills:
   Favored Weapon:

== Sentinel
   Paths: Overload, Tech Armor, Thermal Blast, Throw, Warp
   Skills:
   Favored Weapon:

== Soldier
   Paths: Adrenaline Rush, Concussive Shot, Cryo Ammo, Disruptor Ammo, Incendiary Ammo
   Skills:
   Favored Weapon:

== Vanguard
   Paths: Biotic Charge, Cryo Ammo, Incendiary Ammo, Pull, Shockwave
   Skills:
   Favored Weapon:


= Tech Paths:

== AI Hacking
  Step 1: Sabotage.  Synthetic character within medium range becomes Enraged for 1 round.  Will Negates.  The target does not fall unconscious at the end of the duration.  Or a turret or other automated defense is disabled for the same duration.
  Step 2: Sabotage lasts for 2 rounds.
  Step 3: Sabotage grants a synthetic character 10 points of shields for the duration.  When targeting automated defenses, it also deals {{HIGH}} damage.
  Step 4: Sabotage lasts for 3 rounds.
  Step 5: Sabotage affects all synthetic characters or automated defenses in a 10 foot radius.

== Combat Drone
  Step 1: Combat Drone.  Creates a combat drone within close (CQB) range.  Each round it Taunts and Feints the nearest enemy using your {{SKILL}} modifier.  It can also take a 5 foot step.  It has 10 shields and is destroyed when its shields are reduced to 0.  Its defense is equal to 10 + 2x your Combat Drone Step.  It lasts for 1 round + 1 round per Combat Drone step, or until it is destroyed.  You may only have 1 combat drone at a time, and may dismiss it at any time.
  Step 2: When the Combat Drone successfully taunts or feints, it also deals {{LOW}} damage to the target's shields.
  Step 3: The Combat Drone may take a 10 foot step, and it has 15 Shields.
  Step 4: The Combat Drone may target the two nearest enemies with a Taunt and Feint action each round.  The combat drone rolls one taunt and one feint attack for both targets, and the targets each make their own rolls to resist.
  Step 5: When you create a Combat Drone, you can choose to make it an Attack Drone, or an Explosive Drone.  Attack Drones and Explosive Drones are identical to Combat Drones, except as indicated.  When an Attack Drone successfully taunts or feints, it also deals {{LOW}} lethal damage, instead of shield damage.  When an Explosive Drone is destroyed, it explodes, dealing {{HIGH}} explosive damage, with a 10 foot blast increment.  An Explosive Drone does not explode if it is dismissed.

== Overload
  Step 1: Overload. Does {{HIGH}} damage to Shields and Synthetics within close range.
  Step 2: Overload also stuns Synthetics for 1 round.  Fortitude Negates.
  Step 3: Overload also breaks eezo powered weapons for 1 round.  Fortitude Negates.
  Step 4: Proximity Mine.  Creates a proximity mine within close range, which detonates when an enemy approaches within 5 feet.  Has the same effect as Overload, but using explosive damage, increment 5 feet.
  Step 5: Overload becomes a blast, with an increment of 5 feet.  Proximity Mine increment becomes 10 feet.

== Sentry Turret
  Step 1: Sentry Turret.  Creates a sentry turret within close range of you.  Each round, it attacks the nearest enemy to it within medium range using your ranged attack bonus.  This attack does {{LOW}} damage.  It has 10 shields and is destroyed when its shields are reduced to 0.  Its defense is equal to 10 + your Sentry Turret step.  You may only have 1 sentry turret at a time.  It can be dismissed at any time, and lasts until it is dismissed or destroyed, or until the end of the scene.
  Step 2: The sentry turret gains 10 additional shield points (20 total).
  Step 3: The sentry turret gains a shock attack.  Each round, the sentry turret can Feint the nearest enemy to it within close range, using your {{SKILL}} bonus.
  Step 4: The sentry turret gains 10 additional shield points (30 total).
  Step 5: When you create a sentry turret, you can choose to upgrade its weapon with either a flamethrower, or a rocket launcher.  The Flamethrower Turret and Rocket Launcher Turret are identical to the Sentry Turret, except as indicated.  Instead of making its normal attack, the Flamethrower Turret may project a line of flames up to 20 feet, dealing {{HIGH}} fire damage, Reflex half.  The Rocket Launcher Turret may, instead of its normal attack, fire a small explosive up to medium range, which deals {{HIGH}} explosive damage with a blast increment of 5 feet, Reflex half.

== Tactical Cloak
  Step 1: You may become Invisible for 1 round.  Attacking or using other powers ends the invisibility.  You may not use this power again until 1 round has passed.
  Step 2: While you are Invisible, you gain +1d6 sneak attack damage.
  Step 3: Your speed increases by 10 feet.
  Step 4: While you are Invisible, you gain and additional +1d6 sneak attack damage (2d6 total).
  Step 5: Tactical Cloak allows you to become Invisible for 2 rounds, and while you are invisible your threat range with attacks increases by 2.

== Tech Armor
  Step 1: You gain 5 points of Shields, which stacks with any other shields or barriers you might have.  When your shields are reduced to 0, they explode in a burst of energy, tripping each enemy adjacent to you, using your {{SKILL}} bonus.
  Step 2: When your shields are reduced to 0, they also deal {{LOW}} damage to each adjacent enemy.
  Step 3: You gain 5 additional points of shields (10 total).
  Step 4: When your shields are reduced to 0, it does not trip adjacent enemies, and instead bull rushes them, using your {{SKILL}} bonus.
  Step 5: Whenever you activate your shields you may choose to upgrade them with either Assault Armor or Power Armor.  Assault and Power Armor are identical to Tech Armor, except as indicated.  With Assault Armor, when your shields are reduced to 0, the burst of energy also deals {{HIGH}} damage to each adjacent enemy.  With Power Armor, when your shields are reduced to 0, each enemy within 10 feet of you is bullrushed using your {{SKILL}} bonus, with a +5 bonus to the check.

== Thermal Blast
  Step 1: Incinerate.  Does {{MEDIUM}} fire damage, reflex for half.
  Step 2: Cryo Blast.  Freezes the target for 1 round, making them Paralyzed.  Fortitude negates.
 Step 3: After the first round, Incinerate continues to burn, dealing {{MEDIUM}} fire damage each turn until the target succedes at a Reflex save.
  Step 3: The DC of the Reflex save to avoid catching fire increases by 5.
  Step 4: Cryo Blast also causes the target to have Achilles Heel (Lethal) while frozen.
  Step 5: Incinerate becomes a blast, with an increment of 5 feet.  Cryo Blast affects a 10 foot diameter area.


= Combat Paths

== Adrenaline Rush
  Step 1: Adrenaline Rush.  For 1 round, the threat range of your attacks increases by your adrenaline step, and you also gain a bonus to damage equal to your Adrenaline Rush step.  You may not use this power again until 1 round has passed.
  Step 2: When you use your adrenaline rush, you may take an immediate handle item action.
  Step 3: When you use adrenaline rush, you gain a +2 dodge bonus to defense for 1 round.
  Step 4: When you use adrenaline rush, you gain an additional +2 bonus with melee damage for 1 round.
  Step 5: When you use adrenaline rush, you gain +2 DR for 1 round.

== Concussive Shot
  Step 1: Concussive Shot.  Once per round, when you make an attack with an eezo powered weapon, you can convert the damage to explosive damage without suffering a penalty to the attack or damage.  This attack has a blast increment of 5 feet.
  Step 2: When you hit with concussive shot, you may attempt to trip the target.  If you do, you  make a ranged attack check, opposed by the target's Acrobatics check.  You do not become Sprawled if you fail this check.
  Step 3: When you perform a trip with concussive shot, you gain your Concussive Shot step as a bonus.
  Step 4: When you use concussive shot, instead of making a trip attempt, you can instead make a bull rush attempt.  To do so, you make a ranged attack check, opposed by the target's Athletics check.  If you fail this check, you are not pushed back nor do you become sprawled.
  Step 5: When you use concussive shot, the blast increment becomes 10 feet, and you can attempt to trip each enemy within the first blast increment.

== Cryo Ammo
  Step 1: Cryo Ammo.  When you use Cryo Ammo on an eezo powered weapon, you can convert the damage from that weapon to cold damage without suffering a penalty to the attack or damage.  This effect lasts until it is dismissed, or you use a different Ammo power on the weapon.
  Step 2: When you score a critical hit using cryo ammo, the target is Slowed for 1 round.
  Step 3: When you score a critical hit using cryo ammo, the target becomes paralyzed for 1 round.
  Step 4: When you use cryo ammo, you may also affect the currently equipped weapon of each of your allies within close range.
  Step 5: When you score a critical hit using cryo ammo, the target is paralyzed for 1 round, and then slowed for 1 round.

== Disruptor Ammo
  Step 1: Disruptor Ammo.  When you use Disruptor Ammo on an eezo powered weapon, you deal extra damage to Shields and Synthetics equal to your Disruptor Ammo step.  This effect lasts until it is dismissed, or you use a different Ammo power on the weapon.
  Step 2: When you score a critical hit using disruptor ammo against a Synthetic, it is Stunned for 1 round.
  Step 3: When you score a critical hit using disruptor ammo, the target's eezo powered weapons become broken for 1 round.
  Step 4: When you use disruptor ammo, you may also affect the currently equipped weapon of each of your allies within close range.
  Step 5: When using disruptor ammo, your attacks against Synthetics gain Keen 10

== Incendiary Ammo
  Step 1: Incendiary Ammo.  When you use Incendiary Ammo on an eezo powered weapon, you can convert the damage from that weapon to fire damage without suffering a penalty to the attack or damage.  This effect lasts until it is dismissed, or you use a different Ammo power on the weapon.
 Step 2: When you score a critical hit using incendiary ammo, the target catches fire and continues to take the weapon's damage each round until passing a Reflex save.
  Step 2: When you score a critical hit using incendiary ammo, the DC of the Reflex save to avoid catching fire increases by 5.
  Step 3: When you are using incendiary ammo, your attacks gain AP 2.
  Step 4: When you use incendiary ammo, you may also affect the currently equipped weapon of each of your allies within close range.
  Step 5: When you score a critical hit using incendiary ammo, the hits scatter and explode on impact, with a blast increment of 5 feet.

Revision 1: Sorted things alphabetically, and adjusted the handling of fire damage to be less confusing/over-powered.

Regarding my notes such as {{HIGH}} damage, or {{SKILL}}, those are just placeholders until the conversion is more complete.  I intend for high damage to be comparable to middle tier weapons.  Medium damage would be slightly less than or comparable to low tier weapons, and low damage would be meaningfully less than that.  I chose those values because I don't want to encumber the powers with timers or restrict them with uses per scene or anything like that.  However, I also want players to have reason to do something other than spam their powers continuously in combat, so weapons should almost universally do more damage, and at further ranges than the powers do.  And as far as the {{SKILL}} note goes, I'm not sure which FC skill would be most appropriate in those cases.  For Biotic powers, when a skill check is called for, it could very well be Resolve.  But with Tech powers, I think it should be something else, but I'm not sure what.  Maybe Craft.

I also haven't gotten to the special powers Shep can learn from the companions.  I'd like to include them, but I'm not sure how.  The obvious options to me seem to be to make them available through feats, or as expert or master classes.  I like how accessible feats are, but given that each alignment already has 25 steps worth of paths and only 20 levels to take them in, an expert or master class would be the better way to give extra steps.

And of course, all of this could benefit from some adjustments for balance and style and so on.

EDIT: Oh, and in case it's not clear: in general, these paths give a new ability on the first step, and enhance the ability with subsequent steps.  I used ME2 as the primary guide, but took inspiration from ME1 and 3 for a number of the powers.

Made some changes as suggested by Sletchman below.

[Sletchman]

Neat idea.

Just off the top of my head (from a casual reading):
I'd be cautious about the Thermal Blast 3 ability - fire is already going to cause a DoT effect due to it's type (one that escalates at that), so compounding it with another firebased DoT effect could be either confusing (Does this count as "on fire"?  Can it cause a target to be set on fire as normal fire damage?  Does it stack with being on fire?)  or potentially overpowered (so much fire damage - to both the original and the ally).  My suggested alteration is to have an effect that boosts the DC of the saving throw to catch on fire (from the original Incinerate attack).  Maybe +5, or perhaps +2*Step (+10 top out might be too high though, and if you just add step it's +3 to +5, may as well just call it +5 and leave it there).  Somewhat similar concern for Incendary Ammo 2.

For Tech Armour (and Barrier / Fortification / Geth Sheild Boost / Defense Matrix) I'd take more inspiration from the ME3 iterations - straight up damage reduction that increases as you invest more in it.  You can "purge" it at will for a seperate boost (based on the power in question).  It's just easier to balance and track (in my opinion) and players don't have to worry about as much in game.

[Mister Andersen]

That's a good job, though it presupposes an all-or-nothing approach: either everyone has them or no one does. I don't see how it balances with unpowered individuals.

[MilitiaJim]

That's a good job, though it presupposes an all-or-nothing approach: either everyone has them or no one does. I don't see how it balances with unpowered individuals.

Yes, every PC has one of these paths.  What is the issue?  (Besides docking most NPCs a few points of XP to cover for the extra powers every PC has.)

[Mister Andersen]

*points to Iriquoi and Zane in the Omega game*

Currently it's possible to play non Biotic or Tech powered characters balanced against powered characters. This, not so much as far as I can make out.

[MilitiaJim]

Nor do you get to select your powers, but that seems to me to be something we can iron out.

That Iriquoi and Zane lack tech or biotic powers seems to be balancing by their players in the system that was there.  As it is, there are tradeoffs, and you chose not to take any tech or biotic powers for Iriquoi.  Is that because they didn't fit her concept, or because there was some crunch item with higher priority?

[Mister Andersen]

Oh, I would have liked Iriquoi to be a biotic -- based on a very nice pictue I came across -- but none of the specialties offering that really appealed to me so that meant no powers (and for some reason, the "pick up a biotic power" feat was irritatingly limited to humans, even though it's mentioned in the codex that other species were hax0ring themselves post-natal biotics long before humanity showed up).

Which is sorta why I then decided to hammer Networking until it gave me my permanent armed escort which is kinda like a power (ironically taking a much more narrowly focused specialty in order to pul it off).

[MilitiaJim]

With that in mind, I can see how this iteration of paths would be dissatisfying.

How many design points is a step along a path worth?

[Sletchman]

With that in mind, I can see how this iteration of paths would be dissatisfying.

How many design points is a step along a path worth?

Equal to a feat, so about 3.  In theory.