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Author Topic: What do you do when...  (Read 2395 times)
tfwfh
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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2012, 04:25:55 PM »

I suggest having this player work with your other players to make sure that the other characters are not going to look like chumps in combat.  Not saying they should all be horrible damage fountains, but they should at least be in the same league as this character.  That way you can still actually have combats that are both challenging and fun.  Likewise, make sure this character has at least something to contribute outside of combat.  Looking at his skills, I think that's probably handled, just do what you can to encourage him to actually use them.
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Mister Andersen
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« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2012, 04:38:05 PM »

Give him a rep. The way the gunfighters from the Old West who were particularly fast/good began attracting folks looking to beat them.
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« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2012, 04:42:23 PM »

Give him a rep. The way the gunfighters from the Old West who were particularly fast/good began attracting folks looking to beat them.

I smell a Hunted/Wanted subplot.

Walter
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« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2012, 04:48:42 PM »

With the addendum that you don't be a dick by springing it on him without warning; this is intended as a challenge rather than a punishment. He's invested his character options and should be allowed to enjoy them.
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« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2012, 05:18:21 PM »

With the addendum that you don't be a dick by springing it on him without warning; this is intended as a challenge rather than a punishment. He's invested his character options and should be allowed to enjoy them.

I'm assuming this is targeted at the Subplot comment, as keeping the challenge mix fair and varied has been reasonably well covered in the thread. In that case, I'll point out the Subplot nomination process hardly counts as 'without warning'. Smiley

Walter
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« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2012, 05:48:54 PM »

Speaking more in the general case Smiley
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Blankbeard
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« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2012, 04:46:12 PM »

His build is something like Pech Rogue Burglar 7; 12 str, 19 dex, 14 con, 14 int, 12 wis, 11 cha; feats wolf pack basics/mastery/supremacy, knife basics/mastery/supremacy, ferocity basics (note: campaign property: fast feats). Skills +9 acrobatics, +11 athletics, +8 blend, +9 bluff, +12 craft, +1 disguise, +6 haggle, +1 impress, +1 intimidate, +5 investigation, +2 medicine, +11 notice, +14 prestidigitation, +12 resolve, +9 ride, +9 search, +9 sneak, +8 survival, +9 tactics.

The trick is, his character is going to be a glass cannon - it's something this player has done before, and often, so I know how it will likely go. He'll take down an NPC, and maybe one or two more, and do huge amounts of damage, and if they NPCs they are fighting are intelligent, they'll all gang up on the huge damage stabbing machine and take it down - and FC is way less forgiving than D&D4e.

I want to start off by saying this is a pretty good character as presented.  Yes, he's got a big attack, but he's about as tough as you can expect a burglar to be, he's got *some* social ability and he's pretty good with out of combat utility. 

I think in general the best answer is to let him win most of the time and throw the occasional nut he can't crack at him as long as everyone's having fun.  When you need to smack him down, FC has plenty of ways.  I've tried to list most of them below.  Hope that helps.


Negating sneak attack damage:

Construct, Elemental, and Plant types are immune to sneak attack.

Anyone with the Armor Supremacy feat while wearing armor (usually including Thick Hide) is immune.

NPC quality Damage Defiance (sneak attack) cuts sneak attack damage in half.  Damage Resistance (sneak attack) will reduce his damage by its amount. 

The usual vitals out of reach, no vitals, unable to clearly see vitals (flying, blindness, darkness, hidden, mirror image spell)

Negating flank
Two Headed (giant, ogre) and Ebonscale (drake) species feats require 3 adjacent characters to be flanked.

Jungle crest species feat (saurians), Uncanny Dodge II (burglar, explorer level 8, or UD I twice), and the Elemental type can't be flanked at all.

The NPC quality Hive Mind can't be flanked unless all members of the hive mind are flanked.

Grapple him.

Great swords, shields, and staves all have total defense tricks that requires a saving throw in order to move adjacent to the user. 

Clubs and fencing blades have a stance that allows moving an adjacent opponent 5 foot.  Following is optional.

Bull rushing can move (or sprawl) and is usable by everyone.  It's not without its risks though.

The shove trick (usable by all melee and unarmed attacks) and the Qi Supremacy feat can move opponents away as well.

Exploiting Wicked Stance (Knife Basics)
Wicked stance requires a half action to enter and does not allow movement (except for 5 foot steps).  Knocking him out of it removes 2 sneak attack dice (and thus 2 points of ferocity basics' damage)

Move.  Let him set up and become immobile, then move the fight away from him.  Works well with the anti-adjacency total defense tricks mentioned earlier. 

Sprawling.  Bull rushing, trips, and massive weapons mostly.  Clubs have an AOE trip while great swords have a 10' AOE attack that can be used with a massive weapon.  A minion with Whip Mastery can move him away from the boss and trip with a single attack.

Give the boss or a minion a reach weapon and the shove trick.  When he's in stance, shove him twice.  He'll have to drop stance and take a move action to become adjacent again.  For hilarity, line some minions up with ready actions to shove him away from the boss.  He'll go from glass cannon to hockey puck.
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« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2012, 05:23:12 AM »

Negating flank
Two Headed (giant, ogre) and Ebonscale (drake) species feats require 3 adjacent characters to be flanked.

Jungle crest species feat (saurians), Uncanny Dodge II (burglar, explorer level 8, or UD I twice), and the Elemental type can't be flanked at all.

The NPC quality Hive Mind can't be flanked unless all members of the hive mind are flanked.

Grapple him.

Great swords, shields, and staves all have total defense tricks that requires a saving throw in order to move adjacent to the user. 

Clubs and fencing blades have a stance that allows moving an adjacent opponent 5 foot.  Following is optional.

Bull rushing can move (or sprawl) and is usable by everyone.  It's not without its risks though.

The shove trick (usable by all melee and unarmed attacks) and the Qi Supremacy feat can move opponents away as well.

Also, NPCs can have Condition Immunity(Flanked) (for creatures without "backs" or can see all directions).

Exploiting Wicked Stance (Knife Basics)
Wicked stance requires a half action to enter and does not allow movement (except for 5 foot steps).  Knocking him out of it removes 2 sneak attack dice (and thus 2 points of ferocity basics' damage)

Move.  Let him set up and become immobile, then move the fight away from him.  Works well with the anti-adjacency total defense tricks mentioned earlier. 

Sprawling.  Bull rushing, trips, and massive weapons mostly.  Clubs have an AOE trip while great swords have a 10' AOE attack that can be used with a massive weapon.  A minion with Whip Mastery can move him away from the boss and trip with a single attack.

A good Acrobatics score also enables trip attacks; there are feats that make this easier and/or less risky (Wrestling Basics, Kicking Basics, Polearm Mastery)
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« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2012, 02:06:43 AM »

Give the boss or a minion a reach weapon and the shove trick.  When he's in stance, shove him twice.  He'll have to drop stance and take a move action to become adjacent again.  For hilarity, line some minions up with ready actions to shove him away from the boss.  He'll go from glass cannon to hockey puck.
I like the style of this one. 

I've often wound up playing the 1-trick pony in Sletch's games, though I will point out that every time I try to play something that is not a purely "rain of lead", "rain of fire", "rain of stabby doom" or "BOOM" character I get shanghaied into playing one by the other players, despite what other skills that character might have.

He's definitely right about the natural progression thing, eventually you realise that your character and party are severely deficient in other areas, so you start levelling / feating / skilling that way to make the game more fun.  Though there was, until recently, a very very distinct embargo on my taking social skills.
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CafeCyberia
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« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2012, 03:59:55 AM »

Give the boss or a minion a reach weapon and the shove trick.  When he's in stance, shove him twice.  He'll have to drop stance and take a move action to become adjacent again.  For hilarity, line some minions up with ready actions to shove him away from the boss.  He'll go from glass cannon to hockey puck.
I like the style of this one. 

I've often wound up playing the 1-trick pony in Sletch's games, though I will point out that every time I try to play something that is not a purely "rain of lead", "rain of fire", "rain of stabby doom" or "BOOM" character I get shanghaied into playing one by the other players, despite what other skills that character might have.

He's definitely right about the natural progression thing, eventually you realise that your character and party are severely deficient in other areas, so you start levelling / feating / skilling that way to make the game more fun.  Though there was, until recently, a very very distinct embargo on my taking social skills.

Or parents. 

Hope you can break your combat shanghai with your upcoming character.
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« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2012, 06:21:36 PM »

Though there was, until recently, a very very distinct embargo on my taking social skills.

I'm curious, and yet not entirely sure I want to know.

Walter
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« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2012, 12:02:12 AM »

Though there was, until recently, a very very distinct embargo on my taking social skills.

I'm curious, and yet not entirely sure I want to know.

Walter
There was a horrible bluff, where I decided for some stupid reason that "My Child Died" was an appropriate excuse to my Faceman's Identity's Boss as to why I was late for shift (I had infiltrated as a dock crane operator to move something as part of the mission).  This set me up for a series of really horrible rolls where I somehow managed to make the Supervisor come at me with a machete only to have Sletch blow him apart with a 50 cal rifle from a nearby car.  That coupled with my continued failed social skill rolls resulted in us getting almost every legal, gang and otherwise branch after us and the Agency decided it was in their interests to get us back to base (which I think was in the US) for "Debriefing".

I think at one point I also drowned a cop in a toilet as we were leaving.  I've probably glossed over a lot of things, but that sort of reaction was par for the course whenever I tried any social skill roll.
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Antilles
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« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2012, 01:13:23 AM »

Heh, I'm imagining some sort of infernal rube-goldberg sequence that starts with you character going 'one little white lie, how could it hurt?' and ending up with a nationwide path of death and destruction with your character becoming public enemy #1.
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« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2012, 01:18:47 AM »

Heh, I'm imagining some sort of infernal rube-goldberg sequence that starts with you character going 'one little white lie, how could it hurt?' and ending up with a nationwide path of death and destruction with your character becoming public enemy #1.

This movie needs to be made. Tongue

Walter
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« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2012, 08:23:22 AM »

Heh, I'm imagining some sort of infernal rube-goldberg sequence that starts with you character going 'one little white lie, how could it hurt?' and ending up with a nationwide path of death and destruction with your character becoming public enemy #1.
This movie needs to be made. Tongue

Walter
National Lampoon's Vacation movies?
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