Sletch pontificates on gun combat in SC3

[TheTSKoala]

..maybe reduce Stress Damage by Cover value?  Incentive to GTFO!  Especially if its something large, with alot of ammo.

[MilitiaJim]

I like where this is going. 

Perhaps the Stress damage is equal to the weapon's unmodified recoil rating?

[tfwfh]

Standing in the open and doing nothing shouldn't be a defence against bullets.

Doing nothing is an action.  It's called Delay.  So, if you're in the area then leaving gets you shot at, doing other stuff gets you shot at, and doing nothing gets you shot at.

[Sletchman]

Standing in the open and doing nothing shouldn't be a defence against bullets.

Doing nothing is an action.  It's called Delay.  So, if you're in the area then leaving gets you shot at, doing other stuff gets you shot at, and doing nothing gets you shot at.

I was going more for a "scarper to cover and be stressed out, or don't go to ground and bleed out" sort of thing.  Not sure if I quite got what I envisioned into text form though.

I like where this is going. 

Perhaps the Stress damage is equal to the weapon's unmodified recoil rating?

I like the idea but it seems kind backwards.  If you're being kept down by something that is getting a 25mm grouping right next to your head (low recoil) it's more scary then being kept down by bullets that are all over the place.  Opinion of course, but it just felt more right.

Makes me realise I should try come up with a proper recoil formula, I have some ideas so I'll see what I can put together this evening.

[TheTSKoala]

I like where this is going. 

Perhaps the Stress damage is equal to the weapon's unmodified recoil rating?

I like the idea but it seems kind backwards.  If you're being kept down by something that is getting a 25mm grouping right next to your head (low recoil) it's more scary then being kept down by bullets that are all over the place.  Opinion of course, but it just felt more right.

Makes me realise I should try come up with a proper recoil formula, I have some ideas so I'll see what I can put together this evening.

Or maybe have Damage of Weapon - Recoil Rating?  (I don't have my books with me.. soo.. rough numbers.)

Gun 1.  3D6 - Recoil 3.  30 round.  Averages 9 (3/3) - 3 = 6 Stress dmg. 
Gun 2.  2D8 - Recoil 5.  100 round.   Averages 8 (4/4) - 5 = 3 Stress Damage.

So you'd be trading some damage for the ammo capacity.

[Crafty_Pat]

My bigger, and gun bunny/less important, question:  What separates "assault rifles" from other rifles?

Nothing.  It's just so people can easily find what they're after, not a proficiency seperation or anything.  The category would just contain things that the public considers "assault rifles" (mostly for ease for non-gunbunnies). 

This is in line with our current thinking on the organization in Spycraft Third - that character competence with weapons would align with categories, leaving sub-categories to be non-mechanical and possibly somewhat flavorful, as needed to organize the tables in ways that make the most sense to the most people.

[Sletchman]

@Pat:  Glad to hear, and couldn't agree more.  If players can't find what they need to it doesn't much matter if the rules were handed down directly from on high.  Plus we gun/gear heads can figure things out pretty easily (and are more likely to tinker anyway).  I will admit, I am quite curious about your thoughts on the rest of the stuff in the last couple pages...

@TheTSKoala: Cool idea, but I'm concerned by the growing complexity.  The action is pretty complex as is, and adding more steps has me a little woried.  I'd be happier to just write up a quality for specific weapons and keep the general rule as quick and easy as possible - just a couple quick rolls and you have a result.  The quality could be as simple as: Pants Browning: Any stress damage inflicted while wielding this weapon is doubled.

Or put it into an autofire tree - as an improved supressive fire trick.  Start simple, add complexity through player choices.  Just my opinion of course.

[Crafty_Pat]

@Pat:  Glad to hear, and couldn't agree more.  If players can't find what they need to it doesn't much matter if the rules were handed down directly from on high.  Plus we gun/gear heads can figure things out pretty easily (and are more likely to tinker anyway).  I will admit, I am quite curious about your thoughts on the rest of the stuff in the last couple pages...

We're reading, and talking.

[TheTSKoala]

@Pat:  Glad to hear, and couldn't agree more.  If players can't find what they need to it doesn't much matter if the rules were handed down directly from on high.  Plus we gun/gear heads can figure things out pretty easily (and are more likely to tinker anyway).  I will admit, I am quite curious about your thoughts on the rest of the stuff in the last couple pages...

We're reading, and talking.

After this.. I'd love to know what the Crafty bunch are working over in the tower of power for cyber crime and related activities... heh.

@TheTSKoala: Cool idea, but I'm concerned by the growing complexity.  The action is pretty complex as is, and adding more steps has me a little woried.  I'd be happier to just write up a quality for specific weapons and keep the general rule as quick and easy as possible - just a couple quick rolls and you have a result.  The quality could be as simple as: Pants Browning: Any stress damage inflicted while wielding this weapon is doubled.

Or put it into an autofire tree - as an improved supressive fire trick.  Start simple, add complexity through player choices.  Just my opinion of course.

Say the weapon does 3D6.  Recoil of 4.  Suppression fire would read SF(4). So you know to subtract 4 from the stress damage of the action?  Or something similiar.  No need to make it tooooo complex.  Ooooor.. and.. this might be a terrible idea.. but.. give it a static number.  SF(10).  When using the Suppression Fire, it does 10 damage.  I normally like randomness... but.. 

[tfwfh]

If you want suppression fire to do stress damage, I would build that into the action, not the weapon.  Something like "If the target benefits from cover, but less than full cover, you may convert the attack's damage to stress damage and ignore the cover bonus to their defense at no penalty."  Or maybe some penalty, I'm not sure exactly.  I think bigger/more bullets should be more stress full than accurate bullets.  My paintball experience suggests to me that you really can't tell with any precision where on your cover bullets are landing, and it's really the distraction they pose, and the knowledge that it only takes one of them to somehow makes it through your cover for you to be dead that would produce stress damage.

[Sletchman]

Further thoughts (just a handful of ideas):

Autofire (Full Round Action): You fire several quick volleys at a single target.  Choose a number of volleys up to the weapons Autofire value and roll to hit.  Each burst consumes 5 rounds of ammunition.  You inflict damage an addition time for each full multiple of the weapons Recoil rating that you exceed the targets defence.

Strafe (Full Round Action): You attack a number of adjacent squres equal to your weapons Autofire rating simultaneously, with each square targetted consuming 5 rounds of ammunition.  This attack suffers a penalty equal to your weapons Recoil rating, and damage is rolled seperately for each target sucessfully hit.  You can not 'skip over' any squares to avoid hitting allies or because they are unoccupied.

Supressive Fire (Full Round Action):  Choose a number of adjacent squares up to the weapons Autofire rating [A(X)] to Supress and make an attack check, deducting your weapons recoil rating from the result.  Any character who occupies a supressed square before the beginning of your next initiative count must immediately make a Will save (with a DC equal to your attack check) or suffer stress damage equal to their margin of failure.  Each square supressed in this manner consumes 5 rounds of ammunition.

Brace (Half Action): Your weapon's Recoil rating is reduced by 1.  You must have either a surface to brace your weapon against, or use a tripod/bipod while prone.  If you take any movement actions you lose this benefit.

Autofire Basics
You've got a select fire trigger finger.
Prerequisites: ??  (None?)
Benefits: You may treat weapons that only possess Single fire mode (S) as if they possessed Burst fire mode with a Burst Rating of 2 or 3.  Also, you gain a Trick.
And stay down... (Supressive Fire Trick): Any stress damage you inflict is increased by your weapon's Autofire rating.

Autofire Mastery
You've got a light touch with heavy weapons.
Prerequisites: Autofire Basics
Benefits: When Braced your weapons recoil is decreased by an additional 1.  Also, you gain a Trick.
Falling Dominos (Strafe Trick):  Your weapon's autofire rating is treated as 2 higher and each square targetted only consumes 3 rounds of ammunition.

Autofire Supremacy
The lead wind blows.
Prerequisites: Autofire Mastery
Benefits: You may treat weapons with Burst (B) mode as if they had Autofire (A) mode.  When used in this fashion they count as having an autofire rating of 3.  Also, you gain a Trick.
Precision Assault (Autofire Trick): You gain a +1 to hit for each volley fired at your target and may elect to have each volley only consume 3 rounds of ammunition.

Marksmanship Basics
You have well developed fundamentals.
Prerequisites: --
Benefits: Your Accuracy rating with all proficient ranged weapons is increased by 1.  Also, you gain a Stance.
Perfect Stance (Stance): You may Brace as a free action and may even Brace when there is no surface or bipod/tripod available.  You may not take Run actions while in this stance.

-----------------

I also have Marksmanship Mastery/Supremacy ideas if these look ok.  For the purposes of Marksmanship Basics all hurled weapons and bows possess an accuracy of 1.  I tried to go with simple and tight concepts, and ramped them up a bit through feats.  Stylistically - Strafe is for killin' and Supressive Fire is for crowd control / terror (and (I hope) it can in be used to cover a team by keeping an area "off limits" to enemies).

As always, feedback/input is well welcomed.

[Sletchman]

Alternate Autofire basics trick:  Anyone who fails the save instead becomes Frightened.

EDIT:  That could be added I guess - failure = Frightened + More Stress?

[Agent 333]

I've always disliked that Strafe targets a straight line's worth of squares. If the enemies are standing in a staggered problem they're immune to stafing?

Five badguys standing in a row:
XXXXX <- You can hit all 5 with a single Strafe action

Five badguys slightly staggered:
XOXOX
OXOXO   <-At most 3 badguys hit

How does that make sense? Bullets don't just magically teleport from the gun to the line you are strafing, and don't stop when they get there either. Honestly I always thought Strafe should be a Cone attack...

[MilitiaJim]

...

Five badguys slightly staggered:
XOXOX
OXOXO   <-At most 3 badguys hit

In that staggered formation, I would let you go for all five, and the last two would have -3 instead of -2 to hit.

The cone idea is a good start though.

[Sletchman]

That's why I just put adjacent - in your example all 5 are adjacent to one another so are valid targets.  I guess I need to make it clearly / include examples so my players know immediately.  Cheers.

I like the idea of a cone attack though, that's very interesting.  Might be a little hard to put ammo costs / hard rules in play, but it really answers the overpenetration/missed bullets question and things like it.