I just bought FantasyCraft, and I really wanted to like it, but...

[Crafty_Pat]

I'd be seriously shocked if we see anything concrete on SC3 this year at all.  Remember - we're still waiting on 2 books that we bought 7 months ago (start of August) and all this time later there is still no concrete info on them.  Hell one of the ones I'm waiting on is useless to me because everyone I know wanted it to be something else (they all wanted Mistborn to be a FC setting book with a new magic system).

To be fair, we're trying to give everyone what they've asked for here. It's been requested time and again that we take the time after the digital release to add the little bits and address the little issues invariably brought up by the general readership. Unfortunately, that takes time.

I'm seriously at a loss here - in this case we can't give folks what they say they want and still get stuff out quickly. It's simply not possible.

As to why Mistborn wasn't designed for Fantasy Craft, I'll once again point back to our original mission statements about the game, dating all the way back to when we originally acquired the license. We never thought the system was a good fit for the property, and Brandon specifically requested that we make the game more narrative in form and function. We reiterated those mission statements repeatedly, and ages before the Gen Con pre-order, so I'm a bit confused. If that made the book useless to you, why did you pre-order it? We appreciate the support, we really do, but even more we want you to be happy with your purchase.

Honestly, if it wasn't for the fact that the system is great and I really like the guys themselves, I'd be playing something else.

I'm sorry to hear that Sletch. We're doing everything we can to build the games folks want, and I hope our efforts work better for you in the future.

[Crafty_Pat]

And my second point was: I'm building a smoke demon from a Conan novel, who is immune to all physical attacks, but takes damage from fire and silver items (big damage by the way). So what I'd like to do is a monster with Damage Imunity (Lethal, Subdual) and Achille's Heel (fire, silver). The problem, the way Achille's Heel is phrased in 2nd printing, is that the monster is going to take double lethal damage from each attack with a silver weapon; so the immunity still applies. Per the RAW of course, nothing prevents me to play as I want. But I thought it was worth mentioning.

I'm sure we'll have you covered here. Our discussed adjustments to damage and related rules make all this much easier to handle. 

[Big_Jim]

To be fair, we're trying to give everyone what they've asked for here. It's been requested time and again that we take the time after the digital release to add the little bits and address the little issues invariably brought up by the general readership. Unfortunately, that takes time.

I'm seriously at a loss here - in this case we can't give folks what they say they want and still get stuff out quickly. It's simply not possible.

That's understandable. It really is a lose/lose situation. Fast or Correct, pick one.  We would like both, but it ain't happening. We'll still bitch about it. However the longer stuff gets pushed back, the worse we'll bitch.

As to why Mistborn wasn't designed for Fantasy Craft, I'll once again point back to our original mission statements about the game, dating all the way back to when we originally acquired the license. We never thought the system was a good fit for the property, and Brandon specifically requested that we make the game more narrative in form and function. We reiterated those mission statements repeatedly, and ages before the Gen Con pre-order, so I'm a bit confused. If that made the book useless to you, why did you pre-order it? We appreciate the support, we really do, but even more we want you to be happy with your purchase.

Myself, I bought it at Gencon solely to support Crafty; not out of any desire for Mistborn products. I didn't buy Spellbound at the time because I own a store; I'll buy the PDF and pay cost for my print copy. Mistborn was a special limited edition hardcover at Gencon, so I got it. However, since then there have been rumors that the hardcovers will be available to those who didn't preorder it, so it's not that special. Whatever. I might keep my copy when I get it, I might sell it to a customer who has been itching for the Mistborn print release. I don't know. I'm reading the books now (Got 'em Sunday) and I like the setting, but I keep thinking "This could've been powered by Fantasy Craft".

A number of my customers have asked about the two games and wondered why Mistborn is not a Fantasy Craft product... implying that it's a vote of no confidence from the game designers themselves in their own "toolbox fantasy system". That's not true, but it doesn't stop the speculation.

[Crafty_Pat]

Mistborn was a special limited edition hardcover at Gencon, so I got it. However, since then there have been rumors that the hardcovers will be available to those who didn't preorder it, so it's not that special.

I believe we always said that the hardcover would be available outside the pre-order, though I will confirm again that it won't be available through general retail - the economics of it just explode, unfortunately.

I'm reading the books now (Got 'em Sunday) and I like the setting, but I keep thinking "This could've been powered by Fantasy Craft".

A number of my customers have asked about the two games and wondered why Mistborn is not a Fantasy Craft product... implying that it's a vote of no confidence from the game designers themselves in their own "toolbox fantasy system". That's not true, but it doesn't stop the speculation.

Well, all we can ask is that you guys keep correcting folks because Alex and I can't be everywhere, and the game was never supposed to be Powered by Fantasy Craft. It would be a real shame if folks discount it on that score before ever giving it a chance to impress them on its own merits.

[Mister Andersen]

I suspect there is a lot more player support for the idea of MC being a GURPS- or NWoD-like superstructure that takes minimal time and effort to plug and play between games than there is amongst the developers.

[The_Grand_User]

I really don't understand why you guys don't just release a alpha/beta version PDF of Spellcraft. I can't see any disadvantage of doing so and many advantages (gets something to us sooner, you get feedback, you get money if it's a pre-order beta, get an early jump on the errata for the print edition). With that you *can* get both Fast and Correct (in the long run).  Besides, I'd like to see how it evoles over time, and understand more how you guys think. Really, what's different here than any number of indie computer games that release pre-order betas? Minecraft was in alpha/beta for *years* and people bought it and love it and still buy it. Even the people at WotC are going to do this.

I understand you can't release a print version right away, and that's just fine. A PDF is just fine, even if it's constantly changing for awhile. It wouldn't even have to have good formatting, just a step above a text document. Please, please, please consider this!

[Big_Jim]

I love that idea. Sell the PDF to me now. Update it as you go through RPGNow's standard system.

[Crafty_Pat]

Public betas are great for certain products but not for all of them, and only certain companies can make them work. We think it's doable for the right project, but Spellbound is not one of those projects.

First and foremost, there's the fact that big chunks of the grimoire simply aren't done. The grimoire's a fairly monumental undertaking and to ensure the usual level of internal consistency and attention to detail across the whole spell collection we can't gang-tackle it. One or two people have to power through the first draft before we start letting other folks in.

Add to that the marketing that would be required to explain the public beta to anyone not on these boards, and the endless follow-up as everyone assumes everything is subject to change, plus the layout and other work that would have to be done with each and every update, and the general dissatisfaction on every front that nothing is stable and just done already, and it's just better to make it all happen in-house, as quickly as possible.

We've learned the hard way over the years that it's far, far better to do things once and well, than quickly with many revisions, and we've also learned the hard way not to sell anything that isn't 100% done (at least on the writing and editing fronts). We're living that down now, and we won't make those mistakes again.

[Crafty_Pat]

I love that idea. Sell the PDF to me now. Update it as you go through RPGNow's standard system.

Really? You're a store owner and you like the POD system? Those books almost never make it into stores because the margins are too low.

For the record, we're still old school, printing in offset runs. Outside certain out-of-print and low-demand titles that won't change until POD tech becomes competitive on both price and quality.

[Sletchman]

As to why Mistborn wasn't designed for Fantasy Craft, I'll once again point back to our original mission statements about the game, dating all the way back to when we originally acquired the license. We never thought the system was a good fit for the property, and Brandon specifically requested that we make the game more narrative in form and function. We reiterated those mission statements repeatedly, and ages before the Gen Con pre-order, so I'm a bit confused. If that made the book useless to you, why did you pre-order it? We appreciate the support, we really do, but even more we want you to be happy with your purchase.

There was no actual mechanics information that I saw before the pre-order.  I knew it wasn't "Powered by FantasyCraft", but I was operating under the assumption that it'd be at least somewhat similar to the rest of your current work (just less crunchy then Spycraft / FantasyCraft and more narrative) so I could easily translate the rules as a secondary magic system for my games.  I figured "Portable, if not fully compatible" - similar to what you've mentioned with Spycraft and 10kB.

But, like I said - I like you guys.  I want you to be successful (even if what I want is a product that you don't actually want to write).  If it costs me $50 for a game I won't get to play just to support you that's not a huge deal.  Would Mistborn be amazing if it were "Powered by FantasyCraft" - heck yeah.  But that's not to be, and I can accept that.  It's the same reason I'll buy Looking Glass Wars - not because I'll ever get to play it, but because I consider it a small cost to be part of a great community here.

I appologise for the tone of my post, too - just a little frustrated at some of the stuff my gaming budies have said.

[Crafty_Pat]

There was no actual mechanics information that I saw before the pre-order.  I knew it wasn't "Powered by FantasyCraft", but I was operating under the assumption that it'd be at least somewhat similar to the rest of your current work (just less crunchy then Spycraft / FantasyCraft and more narrative) so I could easily translate the rules as a secondary magic system for my games.  I figured "Portable, if not fully compatible" - similar to what you've mentioned with Spycraft and 10kB.

Fair enough. We went out of our way to mention that it wouldn't be d20 or based on Fantasy Craft every time we had the chance - partly because we expected folks might make the assumption otherwise - but messages are lost or missed no matter how hard you try to convey them. So it goes...

But, like I said - I like you guys.  I want you to be successful (even if what I want is a product that you don't actually want to write).  If it costs me $50 for a game I won't get to play just to support you that's not a huge deal.  Would Mistborn be amazing if it were "Powered by FantasyCraft" - heck yeah.  But that's not to be, and I can accept that.  It's the same reason I'll buy Looking Glass Wars - not because I'll ever get to play it, but because I consider it a small cost to be part of a great community here.

We appreciate that, honestly. This job would be a whole lot less enjoyable without you guys in the thick of it with us.

I appologise for the tone of my post, too - just a little frustrated at some of the stuff my gaming budies have said.

Absolutely no worries. We understand how it goes, and we thank you for hearing us out and keeping the faith.

[Fiendbasher]

The way you guys are talking, I'm wondering if Spellborn is just too big a project. Why not break it down by school, package it up with a class that best highlights that school and add in any thematically appropriate bits and release it book by book?

Only way to eat that elephant is one bite at a time...

[Sletchman]

The way you guys are talking, I'm wondering if Spellborn is just too big a project. Why not break it down by school, package it up with a class that best highlights that school and add in any thematically appropriate bits and release it book by book?

Only way to eat that elephant is one bite at a time...

Interestingly, that was their original plan back in like '07.  Of course it was a Spycraft product then, not a fantasy one.  I'm not entirely sure why they changed from that plan to this one, but I'm sure they have good reason (likely cohesiveness of the overall product - but that's just a total guess).

[Big_Jim]

I love that idea. Sell the PDF to me now. Update it as you go through RPGNow's standard system.

Really? You're a store owner and you like the POD system? Those books almost never make it into stores because the margins are too low.

For the record, we're still old school, printing in offset runs. Outside certain out-of-print and low-demand titles that won't change until POD tech becomes competitive on both price and quality.

Oh, no, no, no... you misunderstood my enthusiasm. I, as a gamer, love having PDF versions of my print products. POD is a different animal, and I hates it. One day it'll destroy my buggy whip store, but until then... meh. No, I own a gamestore because I love games. And, much like Sletchman, I like you guys. So it's very frustrating to convince my customers to give Fantasy Craft a chance, and then tell them for almost two years that the big cool magic book is gonna come out soon. That kills momentum for the system. This forum is full of understanding fans. The standard mantra is "Take your time, we want it done right." But the general game buying public isn't so forgiving. They want the product, and I lose a few more converts every month to, well mostly, to Pathfinder. Don't really take this as whining, per se, but more as an effort to make you aware of the problem. You might not even see it as a problem, but as a retailer, I do.

[Crafty_Pat]

The way you guys are talking, I'm wondering if Spellborn is just too big a project. Why not break it down by school, package it up with a class that best highlights that school and add in any thematically appropriate bits and release it book by book?

Only way to eat that elephant is one bite at a time...

Interestingly, that was their original plan back in like '07.  Of course it was a Spycraft product then, not a fantasy one.  I'm not entirely sure why they changed from that plan to this one, but I'm sure they have good reason (likely cohesiveness of the overall product - but that's just a total guess).

As Sletch suggests it's a matter of cohesion. By the time I took over the project (after the first two of the Spycraft products were released), it was obvious that the only way to avoid painting ourselves into a corner would be to conceive the whole project all at once, so spells could be logically assigned to schools by theme, and so material developed for each casting category could be reflected across the whole library.

This is something D&D's never attempted. It's painfully obvious from reading the various iterations of the game's spell chapters: there isn't a lot of internal logic to spells in that system; balance is almost non-existent; and effects are repeated with countless exceptions. It makes everything hard to remember and use, and contributes to the very real criticisms about the power scale and utility of magic users across the board.

We can do better. I have a pretty firm handle on how to improve the model with Spellbound but the issue's been finding the time to knock it all out at once. Ideally, this would be a project that would find me sequestered for 3-4 months, away from all distractions, but that's not really an option in a two-man operation like ours - especially when projects like Mistborn hit (we didn't really have a choice on that - the book had to hit in 2011, and so it did).

I wasn't originally supposed to be on Mistborn in much more than an advisory capacity but for reasons I won't bore you with I had to become a lot more closely involved for much of last year. It was ultimately for the best and we think the project is better for it, but it kept me away from Spellbound. That's changing now - I'm heading up the final run for the Mistborn core book - mainly because I have experience building indexes, and my editorial eye will be helpful in the final days - but after that the line's going to be shepherded by Alex and our new line developer, who's spinning up now (Will had to leave to go work on Dragon Age at Green Ronin).

Spellbound's my next major project, and I can't wait to dive back in. I've been almost vibrating with excitement about the spell chapter for months, and it's killing me not to be back at the keyboard creating again. I'm sure you'll all benefit from that energy once I start blogging about the work.