I just bought FantasyCraft, and I really wanted to like it, but...

[Gentry]

This is a refrain we grognards often find ourselves repeating to new posters like you, ArmoredSaint: you really need to play the game first. 

The ruleset is surprisingly robust, and pieces can interlock in unexpected ways. In practice this means that things that "just don't look right" or "are just wrong Wrong WRONG!" may not be nearly as off-kilter as you think when taken in the context of the manner in which the game plays at the table. The experience at the table is king, so you really (really) need to generate some playing time before you get serious about kit-bashing on the rules.

Don't get me wrong--I'm nobody's monkey. This reply should not be taken to mean that I'm a blind devotee or lapdog of the designers. I (and others) have simply experienced a number of times that FC rules that seem odd (when read in a vacuum) usually work really coolly well when the dice hit the table. There are a large volume of house-rules floating around these forums. There's no stopping such tinkering--we're all a little autistic that way--but the good house-rules come from people who've dug into the game and have a solid grasp of its workings first.

[TheTSKoala]

Don't get me wrong--I'm nobody's monkey.

We are ALL monkeys to our players... lol.  I now return you to your normally scheduled forum.

[Crafty_Pat]

(possibly insane.. no sane men / women can possibly track all of that is FantasyCraft in their head.. but yet.. they did...)

Who says we're sane?

Welcome to the boards ArmoredSaint!

[Mythrain]

One thing I have noticed is that while a bow gives good AP, it still does 1d6. So congratulations You ignore My armor and I get a booboo. :p

I agree on katanas, they were NOT amor defeaters.

As for plate getting heavier in responce to bow. That iis because the bows were penetrating and heavier armor was still feasible.

Articulate Plate withe Heavy Fittings is DR 7 Blunt Res 2. Add in Reinforced and Fitted and it has Edge Res 2 and is easier to move in. That will stop ALOT of weapons and reduce the rest.

An Archer with Bow Basics and a Long Bow will have AP4 and do 1d6+2 Damage. So with a max damage of 8, 3 are stopped by the armors DR and 2 by the edge res which means a whopping 3 points get through. Sounds damn good to Me

[Deral]

One thing I have noticed is that while a bow gives good AP, it still does 1d6. So congratulations You ignore My armor and I get a booboo. :p

I agree on katanas, they were NOT amor defeaters.

As for plate getting heavier in responce to bow. That iis because the bows were penetrating and heavier armor was still feasible.

Articulate Plate withe Heavy Fittings is DR 7 Blunt Res 2. Add in Reinforced and Fitted and it has Edge Res 2 and is easier to move in. That will stop ALOT of weapons and reduce the rest.

An Archer with Bow Basics and a Long Bow will have AP4 and do 1d6+2 Damage. So with a max damage of 8, 3 are stopped by the armors DR and 2 by the edge res which means a whopping 3 points get through. Sounds damn good to Me

I'm not part of this discussion, but bear in mind that Arrows may have an edge, but they are not Edged, which is a class of weapons. Now if it had Bow or Ranged resist, that'd be another story. Also, an Archer with Bow Basics, a Longbow, and Standard Arrows would have AP 6 (2 from the bow, 2 from the arrow, 2 from the feat).

[Mythrain]

So My Math is off. :p Just making an example. Did not include a number of things

[LordKruelos]

One thing I have noticed is that while a bow gives good AP, it still does 1d6. So congratulations You ignore My armor and I get a booboo. :p

I agree on katanas, they were NOT amor defeaters.

As for plate getting heavier in responce to bow. That iis because the bows were penetrating and heavier armor was still feasible.

Articulate Plate withe Heavy Fittings is DR 7 Blunt Res 2. Add in Reinforced and Fitted and it has Edge Res 2 and is easier to move in. That will stop ALOT of weapons and reduce the rest.

An Archer with Bow Basics and a Long Bow will have AP4 and do 1d6+2 Damage. So with a max damage of 8, 3 are stopped by the armors DR and 2 by the edge res which means a whopping 3 points get through. Sounds damn good to Me

I'm not part of this discussion, but bear in mind that Arrows may have an edge, but they are not Edged, which is a class of weapons. Now if it had Bow or Ranged resist, that'd be another story. Also, an Archer with Bow Basics, a Longbow, and Standard Arrows would have AP 6 (2 from the bow, 2 from the arrow, 2 from the feat).

And of course, not only do you activate Criticals with action dice, but you can also add an AD to your damage roll.
Damage starts to ramp up quicker than you think.

[Ry74]

And even then, the sheer ubiquity of AP makes lighter armors largely a waste of silver for starting characters, as only the most feebly-equipped minions won't have something that can negate a couple of points of DR.

[The_Grand_User]

However, resistences are nice, since I don't think the AP gets through them (though I could be mistaken). get some chainmail with the Reinforced upgrade and you'll be much less worried about swords.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

And even then, the sheer ubiquity of AP makes lighter armors largely a waste of silver for starting characters, as only the most feebly-equipped minions won't have something that can negate a couple of points of DR.

Unfortunate how arms races work that way. Makes keeping that nice Medieval Stasis impossible.

[Mister Andersen]

Seriously, AP isn't that common -- most NPCs aren't stiletto wielding archers. PCs are far more likely to have AP capacity.

[tfwfh]

Seriously, AP isn't that common -- most NPCs aren't stiletto wielding archers. PCs are far more likely to have AP capacity.

This is true enough.  Of 69 melee weapons in the game, 20 have any AP at all.  6 of those are exotic and thus very unlikely to show up in the hands of a standard NPC (or even most special NPCs).  6 of the rest are Axes.  There are only 2 hurled weapons with AP.  One of those is exotic, and the other is the blowgun.  There are no black powder weapons with AP.  Basically, bows are the only kind of weapon that are likely to have AP, and even there, only about half of them do (not counting their bolt/arrow).  Encountering standard NPCs with upgraded equipment should really not be a normal thing, nor should the normal standard NPC be an archer.  So, not counting monsters, if NPCs are going to have AP, the GM needs to plan specially for that.  If the NPC is going to have more than 4, they basically need to be built around armor piercing.

I can also say from my experience GMing FC that giving NPCs less than 3 DR was completely pointless.  The only character who didn't have at least AP 2 with every attack was the mage, and that's mostly because he didn't even carry weapons.

[aegis]

Also, considering how costly AP is for natural attacks, you won't find many monsters with it. Further most "area" attacks (extraordinary attacks, spells) don't have any AP. But yes, the point of AP is clearly to showcase how a leather armor is absolutely useless against an incoming axe!

[Crafty_Pat]

Interesting discussion! Let's point it in a potentially productive direction...

How would you prefer DR and AP work? What percentage of weapons should have AP? What kind of AP and DR ranges sound good to you? What else would you tweak about the stats?

I want to be clear here: Fantasy Craft exists, and it's not likely that we'll be forming sweeping errata for a system folks currently like based on discussion like this. It could, however, have a profound impact on future designs. Potentially.

[Mister Andersen]

In 2.0, the propritary 5.7mm round for the P-90 pretty much uniquely had inherent AP compared to other rounds. Compared to FC armours, would rifle ammunition (which is sharply pointed as opposed to your typical roundnosed pistol ammo) be considered to have inherent AP or is it just going to rely on a big damage code to punch through DR?

On another front going forward, how likely are we to see armour listing specific weaknesses (ie, mail: great for stopping slashing weapons, not so much for narrow stabby ones)