Author Topic: Improved guns for Steampunk FantasyCraft  (Read 2184 times)

Addax

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Improved guns for Steampunk FantasyCraft
« on: February 26, 2012, 11:50:38 AM »
I'm working on setting up a steampunk setting using fantasycraft for my players and I'm hoping to make greater use of firearms than standard fantasycraft.
 
I'm under the assumption that the relatively high damage of the black powder weapons is intended to balance out their relatively long load times. In an age of revolvers with the current rules I'm afraid that guns will be a little too overwhelming, on the other hand I think they will probably need some Armor Penetration value as well to make up for their lesser damage capacity.

I'm starting this thread to see if anyone else has done something similar and what they came up with. I'll also post my own ideas when I have more time.

To give some background and perhaps give some ideas, steam engines are run by conventional coal only rarely and mostly in rural settings. Instead metal spheres or cylinders are enchanted to produce heat when placed in water causing it to boil. This allows for a miniaturization of steam technologies and it's use in many situations that historically were never realized.  

And in the interest of keeping things sane lets assume that the enchantments on those steam sphere's are too delicate to be fired out of a gun.  ;)

SilvercatMoonpaw

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Re: Improved guns for Steampunk FantasyCraft
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2012, 12:37:29 PM »
And in the interest of keeping things sane lets assume that the enchantments on those steam sphere's are too delicate to be fired out of a gun.  ;)
Why? ??? All you'd get is heat-bullets.  Automatically cauterize the wounds, sure, that's scary, but it's not like they make people explode when they hit.

Also that suggests if you shake a steam engine enough to affect the spheres the engine shuts off.

Addax

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Re: Improved guns for Steampunk FantasyCraft
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2012, 01:19:32 PM »
The shaking of the steam engine wasn't something I had considered but it would have to be astonishingly violent to equate with a blackpowder explosion that a bullet is exposed to.

As for the heat bullet thing, I did think that might be a possibility but I didn't want players to get the idea they can make the equivalent of a white phosphorus bullet that continues to burn inside the victim until it can be surgically removed. Leads to stupidly complicated rules. Sorry was being a bit sleep deprived and literal minded when I posted earlier.  :P

Please disregard it.

 
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 01:25:59 PM by Addax »

foproy

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Re: Improved guns for Steampunk FantasyCraft
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2012, 01:34:24 PM »
steam engines can be quite violent. first you are dealing with a great deal of pressure in those tanks, second the motor itself tends to spin at an extremely high rpm and use 2 large cylinders. so yes if you want to be literal if a they are to delicate for a gun then they are to delicate for a boiler. also the shaking and pressure in the boiler are constant which could cause problems if they are to delicate for use in a gun. you could make them cost prohibitive for a gun.
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Krensky

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Re: Improved guns for Steampunk FantasyCraft
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2012, 01:52:02 PM »
Actually, the high damage comes from the fact they're guns. Spycraft 2.0s guns are in the same vein. 7.62x39mm Russian does 3d6, for example, 7mm Remmington and .300 Winchester do 3d6+2, a .410 shotgun slug does 2d6+2, .45 ACP does 1d12 with an effect similar to massive, 5.56x45mm NATO does 4d4. The long load times are because it takes a long time to load a muzzleloader.

The two classic old west cartridges are .45 Colt and .44-40 (which was the most common chambering for the Colt Single Action Army, aka the Peacemaker and the Winchester carbine) do 1d12 and 1d12+2. They also have a quality called Takedown, which is mechanically identical to massive without the size limitation.

As for Incindiary ammo, steal the rules for Armor-Piercing Incindiary ammo from SC2.0. On a critical hit the attacker can spend an extra die to convert the damage from lethal to fire.
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Addax

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Re: Improved guns for Steampunk FantasyCraft
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2012, 02:41:45 PM »
Hmm, the idea that a steam sphere would be cost prohibitive for a gun's ammunition would probably fit best I think. Meshes well with the idea that most prizes can only be bought with reputation, not cash and I'm hoping to mix in some technological devices that are re-flavored magic items.

It's been a long time since I played Spycraft and I just found my old copy. Thanks for the input Krensky, the weapons sections are very extensive and I haven't had a chance to look at good analogs to older guns.


SilvercatMoonpaw

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Re: Improved guns for Steampunk FantasyCraft
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2012, 02:45:45 PM »
Meshes well with the idea that most prizes can only be bought with reputation, not cash....
Heck, make it cost enough silver per-sphere and it's still prohibitive without reputation.

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Re: Improved guns for Steampunk FantasyCraft
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2012, 05:04:50 PM »
I made these for a home project.  Maybe they're close to what you want.  If not, they're spoilered so they don't take up much room.  They're the main book's weapons with usually a die dropped off the damage and multiple shots.  YMMV.

Spoiler: Descriptions • show


Firearm Qualities
Chainfire:  This weapon must be fired using one of the two following tricks:  
   Gun down (Battery Gun trick):  The target takes the weapon damage an additional time for every 5 points you hit by.
   Firehose (Battery Gun trick): This attack targets 5 squares plus additional squares equal to the number of ranged combat feats you have.  You inflict the gun's damage on everything in the area.  Characters may make a Reflex save (DC 20 + your Dex modifier) to take half damage.
   *** Stripped down versions of Spycraft's autofire.
 
Chambered(X): This weapon may be fired a number of times equal to the chambered quality before being reloaded.  Each chamber must be reloaded separately.

Cookoff(X) This weapon may be fired X times before reloading.  If it suffers an error, the remaining ammunition explodes doing its damage a number of times equal to the number of action dice spent.  Siege weapons with this quality have blast 1 when they explode due to an error.

crew(X): This weapon requires the indicated number of adjacent allies to operate.  Without this number, double the load time before any other adjustment.

Ammunition
Cannon shot:  Grapeshot or solid balls and enough powder to send them on their way.

Paper Cartridge:  Contains premeasured powder and shot, allowing for quicker reloading.  Simpler cartridges are torn open and powder is poured into the barrel followed by the bullet while newer nitrated cartridges are loaded whole and burn completely when fired.
*** With a bandoleer, paper cartridges, and the Quick Draw feat most firearms drop to load 1.  If the Multiarm feat is available, load 0 is possible.

Volley gun shot: This is powder and shot sized for the multiple barrels of a volley gun.

Black powder firearms

Flintlock weapons are still very common but new weapons use the percussion cap, making them a bit easier to use.  The most skilled gunsmiths create weapons that fire several shots before being reloaded.

Note:  If using these guns and those from Fantasy Craft, consider removing the unreliable quality from the single shot weapons.

Coach gun: This breechloader has 2 barrels and fires shot.  It is named for its popularity as a defender of stagecoaches.

Pistol, Pepperbox:  This pistol has four barrels which rotate under the hammer one at a time.  It can be fired 4 times before reloading, assuming it doesn't explode first.  That rarely happens.

Pistol, Pocket:  A small three barrel pepperbox that is highly concealable.

Pistol, Revolver:  The newest firearms, revolvers have a fixed cylinder that holds six rounds.  Unlike other firearms, they are loaded at the front of the cylinder.

Revolving Rifle:  This rifle uses the same mechanism as a pistol revolver.  Due to the release of hot gas around the cylinder, this rifle is notorious for burning the hands of careless marksmen.

Siege Weapons
Consider giving Flares, Mortars, and Rockets the cookoff(1) quality.

Battery gun:  This multibarrel gun is mounted on a cart and operated by two crew members.  It is handcranked and belt fed.  Each belt is enough for five long bursts.  So far, the rarity and expense of these weapons mean that only those with military connections can obtain them.

Volley gun:  This weapon has 10 or more barrels, all of which are fired at once.


Spoiler: Weapon Table • show

[table][tr][td][/td][td]Dmg[/td][td]Threat[/td][td]Range[/td][td]Qualites[/td][td]Sz/Hand[/td][td]Const[/td][td]Comp[/td][td]Weight[/td][td]Cost[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ammunition[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Powder and Shot (10)[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]D/-[/td][td]Soft 1[/td][td]15W[/td][td] lb[/td][td]10s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Paper Cartridge (10)[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]Load -2[/td][td]D/-[/td][td]Soft 1[/td][td]18W[/td][td] lb[/td][td]100s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sidearms[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pistol, Pepperbox[/td][td]2d6[/td][td]19-20[/td][td]20 ft x 3[/td][td]Load 7 unreliable cookoff(4)[/td][td]T/1h[/td][td]Hard 2[/td][td]22M[/td][td]2 lb[/td][td]80s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pistol, Pocket[/td][td]2d4[/td][td]18-20[/td][td]10ft x 3[/td][td]Load 7 unreliable cookoff(3)[/td][td]F/1h[/td][td]Hard 2[/td][td]20M[/td][td]1 lb[/td][td]70s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pistol, Revolver*[/td][td]2d6[/td][td]18-20[/td][td]20 ft x 3[/td][td]Load 7 chambered(6)[/td][td]T/1h[/td][td]Hard 2[/td][td]30M[/td][td]3 lb[/td][td]300s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Long arms[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Coach gun[/td][td]3d6[/td][td]19-20[/td][td]20 ft x 3[/td][td]Load 7 chambered(2) spread[/td][td]S/2h[/td][td]Hard 3[/td][td]25M[/td][td]8lbs[/td][td]125s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Revolving Rifle*[/td][td]3d6[/td][td]18-20[/td][td]50ft x 5[/td][td]Load 7 chambered(5) unreliable[/td][td]M/2h[/td][td]Hard 2[/td][td]30M[/td][td]10 lbs[/td][td]450s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Siege Weapons[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Volley Gun[/td][td]6d6[/td][td]19-20[/td][td]75ft x 6[/td][td]Load 15 unreliable inaccurate[/td][td]L/-[/td][td]Hard 3[/td][td]22M[/td][td]150 lbs[/td][td]1000s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]blast 1 cookoff(1) stationary crew(2)[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Battery Gun[/td][td]3d6[/td][td]20[/td][td]50ft x 6[/td][td]Load 20 crew(3) stationary[/td][td]L/-[/td][td]Hard 3[/td][td]-[/td][td]250 lbs[/td][td]10 Rep/scene[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]chainfire chambered(5) inaccurate[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]Military Renown 3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Cannon shot[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]T/-[/td][td]Soft 1[/td][td]15W[/td][td]10 lbs[/td][td]100s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Volley Gun shot[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]T/-[/td][td]Soft 1[/td][td]20W[/td][td]5 lbs[/td][td]100s[/td][/tr]
[/table]
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 05:07:31 PM by Blankbeard »

Coyote0273

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Re: Improved guns for Steampunk FantasyCraft
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2012, 05:11:20 PM »
I made these for a home project.  Maybe they're close to what you want.  If not, they're spoilered so they don't take up much room.  They're the main book's weapons with usually a die dropped off the damage and multiple shots.  YMMV.

Spoiler: Descriptions • show


Firearm Qualities
Chainfire:  This weapon must be fired using one of the two following tricks:  
   Gun down (Battery Gun trick):  The target takes the weapon damage an additional time for every 5 points you hit by.
   Firehose (Battery Gun trick): This attack targets 5 squares plus additional squares equal to the number of ranged combat feats you have.  You inflict the gun's damage on everything in the area.  Characters may make a Reflex save (DC 20 + your Dex modifier) to take half damage.
   *** Stripped down versions of Spycraft's autofire.
 
Chambered(X): This weapon may be fired a number of times equal to the chambered quality before being reloaded.  Each chamber must be reloaded separately.

Cookoff(X) This weapon may be fired X times before reloading.  If it suffers an error, the remaining ammunition explodes doing its damage a number of times equal to the number of action dice spent.  Siege weapons with this quality have blast 1 when they explode due to an error.

crew(X): This weapon requires the indicated number of adjacent allies to operate.  Without this number, double the load time before any other adjustment.

Ammunition
Cannon shot:  Grapeshot or solid balls and enough powder to send them on their way.

Paper Cartridge:  Contains premeasured powder and shot, allowing for quicker reloading.  Simpler cartridges are torn open and powder is poured into the barrel followed by the bullet while newer nitrated cartridges are loaded whole and burn completely when fired.
*** With a bandoleer, paper cartridges, and the Quick Draw feat most firearms drop to load 1.  If the Multiarm feat is available, load 0 is possible.

Volley gun shot: This is powder and shot sized for the multiple barrels of a volley gun.

Black powder firearms

Flintlock weapons are still very common but new weapons use the percussion cap, making them a bit easier to use.  The most skilled gunsmiths create weapons that fire several shots before being reloaded.

Note:  If using these guns and those from Fantasy Craft, consider removing the unreliable quality from the single shot weapons.

Coach gun: This breechloader has 2 barrels and fires shot.  It is named for its popularity as a defender of stagecoaches.

Pistol, Pepperbox:  This pistol has four barrels which rotate under the hammer one at a time.  It can be fired 4 times before reloading, assuming it doesn't explode first.  That rarely happens.

Pistol, Pocket:  A small three barrel pepperbox that is highly concealable.

Pistol, Revolver:  The newest firearms, revolvers have a fixed cylinder that holds six rounds.  Unlike other firearms, they are loaded at the front of the cylinder.

Revolving Rifle:  This rifle uses the same mechanism as a pistol revolver.  Due to the release of hot gas around the cylinder, this rifle is notorious for burning the hands of careless marksmen.

Siege Weapons
Consider giving Flares, Mortars, and Rockets the cookoff(1) quality.

Battery gun:  This multibarrel gun is mounted on a cart and operated by two crew members.  It is handcranked and belt fed.  Each belt is enough for five long bursts.  So far, the rarity and expense of these weapons mean that only those with military connections can obtain them.

Volley gun:  This weapon has 10 or more barrels, all of which are fired at once.


Spoiler: Weapon Table • show

[table][tr][td][/td][td]Dmg[/td][td]Threat[/td][td]Range[/td][td]Qualites[/td][td]Sz/Hand[/td][td]Const[/td][td]Comp[/td][td]Weight[/td][td]Cost[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ammunition[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Powder and Shot (10)[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]D/-[/td][td]Soft 1[/td][td]15W[/td][td] lb[/td][td]10s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Paper Cartridge (10)[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]Load -2[/td][td]D/-[/td][td]Soft 1[/td][td]18W[/td][td] lb[/td][td]100s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sidearms[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pistol, Pepperbox[/td][td]2d6[/td][td]19-20[/td][td]20 ft x 3[/td][td]Load 7 unreliable cookoff(4)[/td][td]T/1h[/td][td]Hard 2[/td][td]22M[/td][td]2 lb[/td][td]80s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pistol, Pocket[/td][td]2d4[/td][td]18-20[/td][td]10ft x 3[/td][td]Load 7 unreliable cookoff(3)[/td][td]F/1h[/td][td]Hard 2[/td][td]20M[/td][td]1 lb[/td][td]70s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pistol, Revolver*[/td][td]2d6[/td][td]18-20[/td][td]20 ft x 3[/td][td]Load 7 chambered(6)[/td][td]T/1h[/td][td]Hard 2[/td][td]30M[/td][td]3 lb[/td][td]300s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Long arms[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Coach gun[/td][td]3d6[/td][td]19-20[/td][td]20 ft x 3[/td][td]Load 7 chambered(2) spread[/td][td]S/2h[/td][td]Hard 3[/td][td]25M[/td][td]8lbs[/td][td]125s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Revolving Rifle*[/td][td]3d6[/td][td]18-20[/td][td]50ft x 5[/td][td]Load 7 chambered(5) unreliable[/td][td]M/2h[/td][td]Hard 2[/td][td]30M[/td][td]10 lbs[/td][td]450s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Siege Weapons[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Volley Gun[/td][td]6d6[/td][td]19-20[/td][td]75ft x 6[/td][td]Load 15 unreliable inaccurate[/td][td]L/-[/td][td]Hard 3[/td][td]22M[/td][td]150 lbs[/td][td]1000s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]blast 1 cookoff(1) stationary crew(2)[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Battery Gun[/td][td]3d6[/td][td]20[/td][td]50ft x 6[/td][td]Load 20 crew(3) stationary[/td][td]L/-[/td][td]Hard 3[/td][td]-[/td][td]250 lbs[/td][td]10 Rep/scene[/td][/tr]
[tr][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]chainfire chambered(5) inaccurate[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td][/td][td]Military Renown 3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Cannon shot[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]T/-[/td][td]Soft 1[/td][td]15W[/td][td]10 lbs[/td][td]100s[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Volley Gun shot[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]T/-[/td][td]Soft 1[/td][td]20W[/td][td]5 lbs[/td][td]100s[/td][/tr]
[/table]


You are my personal god for at least the next 72 hours for this. I've so needed something like this for my game but didn't have the time to stat out a whole bunch of guns. :)

Only thing I would add tho is on the Firehose trick, make it "adjacent" squares. Otherwise you'll get players picking and choosing x squares on the map.

SilvercatMoonpaw

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Re: Improved guns for Steampunk FantasyCraft
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2012, 05:14:48 PM »
Hm, nice.  I wanted to run some FantasyCraft with more modern guns (and by "more modern" I mean "this tech level will do fine").

Addax

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Re: Improved guns for Steampunk FantasyCraft
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2012, 05:19:55 PM »
Very nice Blankbeard! I was originally looking a bit beyond percussion cap weapons but I think I'll query my group and see if they have a preference. From my point of view it your weapons provide the multishot ability that I wanted but with the long reload time makes other weapon groups viable as well.

I'm borrowing the concept of a steam powered crossbow from the New Epoch line of games and this I think would make that concept still viable. Very cool!

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Re: Improved guns for Steampunk FantasyCraft
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2012, 07:29:58 PM »
Personally, I'd be far more concerned about my players using those magic spheres to make explosives then I would be that'd they want to use them in a gun.

For use in guns I'd just change the damage type to Fire.  Justification: If the target "catches fire" then the round lodged in, otherwise it was a through and through - the sphere would have to be extremely hard to not be crushed (and destroyed) in an engine and so would penetrate soft targets pretty easily (so throw on some AP to support that logic and you're good to go).  It's not an ultra realistic representation but it won't bog the game down and makes enough sense.

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Re: Improved guns for Steampunk FantasyCraft
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2012, 07:43:29 PM »
Personally, I'd be far more concerned about my players using those magic spheres to make explosives then I would be that'd they want to use them in a gun.

For use in guns I'd just change the damage type to Fire.  Justification: If the target "catches fire" then the round lodged in, otherwise it was a through and through - the sphere would have to be extremely hard to not be crushed (and destroyed) in an engine and so would penetrate soft targets pretty easily (so throw on some AP to support that logic and you're good to go).  It's not an ultra realistic representation but it won't bog the game down and makes enough sense.
since they are supposed to be water activated, and black powder does not like water at all i don't think he has much to worry about for bomb making.
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Re: Improved guns for Steampunk FantasyCraft
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2012, 07:48:31 PM »
since they are supposed to be water activated, and black powder does not like water at all i don't think he has much to worry about for bomb making.

Forget black powder - you put a magical device that boils water and creates the pressures needed for a steam engine into a sealed metal container and you got yourself a bomb.  Make one out of strong enough materials that it can contain high pressures and you got yourself a HUGE bomb.  One that doesn't let off any telltale burning odours (like a fuse) that let the targets know it's there - if you insulate it to make it work faster there won't even be any noise.

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Re: Improved guns for Steampunk FantasyCraft
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2012, 03:34:36 PM »
Our gaming group has incorporated firearms in an Eberron campaign.  The firearms are magical rather than technological keeping with the theme of Eberron.  We have tried to implement weapons that could be fired a few times but have a number of charges per 'clip' of ammunition, therefore letting the user use the weapon several times before a full reload.  In the case of our weapons we use bound elementals much like the magical techniques used to bind elementals to airships.  This makes firearms expensive and prestigious, usually only those in great standing within a Dragonmarked house has access to one. 

We had found that making a pistol capable of firing every round to be incredibly powerful.  We are using a 'charge' system in which every shot is a charge that takes a round or more to recharge depending on the expenditure of each shot.  Damage output is related to how long the recharge takes, so you could 'charge up' a shot for full damage or shoot every round with a very low damage output.  I think it fits the theme of the campaign well.

 I know that this is a very specific conversion, but there are ways to make firearms work in any campaign.  The thing is, firearms are incredibly powerful and if you want to limit access do so using renown and reputation.  This goes for settings in which firearms are a new emerging technology.
You're now realizing Fantasy Craft's rules makes it easy to play a gelatinous cube with levels in assassin.