Author Topic: Huge PC (again)  (Read 969 times)

Catodon

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Huge PC (again)
« on: February 19, 2012, 12:05:01 PM »
Hi all,
This is a modified version of a previous topic. To be truthful I was a bit reluctant to open this can of worms again but I like to get a few more eyes on things before they go to the FCDB.
 
Truly Massive (reboot)
Altered from the First Printing with the assumption that this provides roughly 2 feats worth of benefits which must be balanced by sufficient hinderances.
Prerequisites: Drake, Giant, or Rootwalker, Level 1 only
Benefit: Your Size increases to Huge (3x3) [4] with a Reach of 2 [1]. You must reduce your highest attribute by 2 [-1.5] and you gain fatal falls [-0.5].
Special: When you gain this feat you may reduce any of your attributes by 2 to gain an additional Species feat with the requirement “Level 1 only.”
House Rules: Huge Drakes (called Dragons) are 3x5 reach 2.

Math for really big PC’s
To be Truly Massive (2 feats =6) you must be Large already (-1) and Truly Massive grants reach 2 [1]  =.
Therefore Huge is worth 4.

What do you really get for Large?:
+5ST for carrying cost as per Improved Stability [1]
Access to oversized gear but these are internally balanced by increasing error ranges [0 in my opinion].
-1 defence the inverse of Agile Defence [-1]
Subtotal 0
Therefore 1.5x wounds must be worth (1)

So Huge:
+10 ST for carrying [2]
-2 Defence [-2]
Subtotal 0
Therefore 2xCon wounds must be worth [4].

Ok so I’ve got only three data points which is a bit rubbish and I can olny really fit a linear curve but allowing for that…
The  formula used is:
 ~Yx4-4 where Y is the wounds multiplier. So with rounding:
Wounds xCon    Known pt   Calculated   Rounded
0.125-   -3.5   -3.5
0.25   -   -3   -3
0.333333333   -   -2.666666667   -2.5
0.5   -   -2   -2
0.666666667   -   -1.333333333   -1.5
1   0   0   0
1.5   1   2   2
2   4   4   4
3   -   8   8
4   -   12   12
5   -   16   16
6   -   20   20


Point costs for big Sizes when designing species or species feats (does not include reach).
Size / final cost   Carrying   Defence    wounds
Huge 4=       2      -2      4
Gargantuan 7=   3      -4      8
Colossal 8=      4      -8      12
Enormous 5=      5      -16      16
Vast -6=      6      -32      20

Earth Shaker (Gargantuan)
Earth Shaker allows Gargantuan PC’s such as 60’ tall giants, battleship-sized dragons, and towering Rootwalkers.
This feat is not suitable for many campaigns. A typical fantasy campaign features a lot of ‘dungeon crawls’. A Huge or Gargantuan PCs is effectively barred from dungeon adventures. My campaign will not have dungeons. There will be overland exploration, politics, clashes on battlefields, romance, enormous monsters, and struggles between faiths. If you are running a campaign such as this that suits bigger PCs you could consider opening up Truly Massive allowing PCs to about 30’ tall. However for my campaign set in a mythic first age the gigantes, titanic 60’ giants who once defied the gods, still stride across the world.
Earthshaker (Species feat)
Your footsteps are like the coming of doom.
Prerequisites: Huge Size (Truly Massive is one method of reaching Huge), first level only.
Benefit: You are Gargantuan (4=8-4 Huge). +1 square to both the length and breadth of your footprint. Reach increases by +1 (1). However your great bulk causes problems, resulting in and lumbering (-1) and Restricted Actions (when making climb, balance, or forage checks you are always considered untrained) [-1]. If you already have lumbering add breakfall, jump and tumble to the list of restricted actions.
Total: 3




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Sletchman

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Re: Huge PC (again)
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2012, 04:11:28 AM »
I disagree with some of your math - generally with origins a bonus with worth more (absolutely speaking) then a penalty of the same magnitude.

Example:
Natural Elegance: +1 Appearance [+1pt]
Repulsive Habits: -2 Appearance [-0.5pts]

So, it would seem that a penalty is worth about 1/4 as much as a bonus of the same magnitude (+1 action die = 4pts, -1 action die (conditionally) = -1pt).  I recall one of the Crafty guys saying something along the same lines (just without an actual ratio - just that a bonus is more points then a penalty).  So I think as your defence penalty grows larger the negative won't scale as linearly (there gets to a point where you just ignore defence utterly because -16 is pretty much functionally the same as -32 - you will be hit often).

Something like:
-1 Def: -0.5
-2 Def: -1
-4 Def: -1.5
-8 Def: -3
-16 Def: -5

These are total ass-pulls and based mostly entirely on guesswork and gut feeling.  Shouldn't be a problem for your Truly Massive feat (plus some species feats are outliers - Infernal and Fire Brave are pretty hardcore in terms of origin points) so the extra 0.5pts shouldn't make a problem.  Also I applaud your efforts - I love threads like this where people really think through their problem.

Sletchman

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Re: Huge PC (again)
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2012, 04:18:34 AM »
Urg.  Double post, but I should also put an idea I had for Huge size characters:

Truly Massive
You are really quite big.
Prerequisites: Large Size, 1st Level only
Benefit: The lower of your Strength or Constitution increases by 1 and you gain +1 Reach.
You may chose to become Huge sized.  If you do, your starting Action Dice decrease by 1 and you find it difficult to focus on the tiny creatures around you, suffering a -5 to Sense Motive checks targetting anyone smaller then you.

Not sure if it's helpful at all, but I figure I shouldn't just criticise other peoples efforts without offering my own.  It should have what size you become (3x3 for bipeds, 3x4/5 for most quadrapeds I guess?) as well as specifying that your wounds increase to 2x Con.

Catodon

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Re: Huge PC (again)
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2012, 12:33:29 PM »
Ahh that makes a lot of sense. Thanks. A mistake caught early is good otherwise all the products of the model will be wrong. So to do: adjust data, get more data-points, fit sigmoidal curve, re-write.
"I just do eyes"
Author of Gulliver's Trading Company and the map of the world of Gullivers travels:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/84956575/Gullivers-Trading-Co-Grub
http://browse.deviantart.com/#/art/Gulliver-s-Travels-World-Map-294804331?hf=1
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Khaalis

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Re: Huge PC (again)
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 12:42:38 AM »
I really like Sletchman's version, though for my own use I would simply make becoming Huge a part of the feat, not a choice. I would then add a sidebar as follows (note, I don't have Rootwalkers in my world so they might need their own section).


Becoming Huge:
•   Your Carrying Capacity considers your STR score to be 5 higher than as your former Large size.
•   Your Defense score modifier increases from a -1 to -2 (though the penalty still may not reduce Defense below 1).
•   You gain greater size advantages in certain maneuvers such as Bull Rush, Disarm defense, etc.)
•   All natural attacks improve their base damage by 1 size category (e.g. a drake bite increases from 1d10 to 1d12 base damage).
•   You must purchase size appropriate gear, weapons and armor. Armor cost increases to +600% of base. Weapon cost increases to +400% of base. Additionally, you use the following entry as an addendum to the 'Weapon Scaling' section (see FC p184). 
      Huge-Scale Upgrade (applies to Medium weapons from the Weapon Tables): The weapon's error range increases by 2, its weight increases by 600%, and its size and damage dice increase by 2 steps (e.g. from Medium to Huge, and from d6 to d10).

Applies to Drakes only:
•   Footprint increases to (3x5)
•   Resist Bull Rush and Trip attempts and resisting Bull Rush and Trip attempts so long as you are standing firmly on the ground or flying.

Applies to Giants only:
•   Footprint increases to (3x3)
•   Resist Bull Rush and Trip attempts and resisting Bull Rush and Trip attempts so long as you are standing firmly on the ground and not climbing, flying, or riding
•   The minimum size mount you can ride is a Gargantuan.