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Author Topic: Aurora Skies (Earth Defence 2.0 setting discussion)  (Read 10767 times)
RusVal
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« Reply #90 on: June 28, 2012, 02:37:52 PM »

At least junior high Latin lets one know if the translators are off a bit?  "Ad Terrae Finem," to give possession to the Earth, and make the end not a place.

And now you know why I don't normally Google.  Also, I can barely remember my high school French, let alone know any Latin.  Tongue

How about "Donec mortem victurus, defensores terrae," "Until victory or death, Defenders of Earth"? 

Hmm, maybe.  What I was going for was a motto that someone posing as an extreme Counter-Terrorism unit might say.  "To the End of the Earth" implies chasing someone, and can also be a more cynical view of their true fight (they don't expect true victory, but they will fight to the last anyway).
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« Reply #91 on: June 28, 2012, 03:35:00 PM »

"To the End of the Earth" ... can also be a more cynical view of their true fight (they don't expect true victory, but they will fight to the last anyway).

That was my first thought on reading it.  Which I like quite a lot.
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MilitiaJim
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« Reply #92 on: June 30, 2012, 11:06:46 PM »

Posing is a good point.  Until the end of the block, or planet, we'll fight.  Then go off and find somewhere else to fight.   Cheesy
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"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."  ("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool  in the killer's hands.")
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« Reply #93 on: July 04, 2012, 06:34:37 PM »

Posing is a good point.  Until the end of the block, or planet, we'll fight.  Then go off and find somewhere else to fight.   Cheesy

Also makes for a good battle cry.

"To the end of the Earth, WE FIGHT!"
"WE FIGHT!!"

By the way, I think I have the general math for some new gear lined up properly.  At least for some basic personal weaponry, anyway:

- "Fire Orb" style Plasma (Or Pulse Plasma) are Laser-type weapons using scale-numbered d8s (4d8 for rifle, 3d8 for pistol, for instance), offset by an extremely short range.  At the same time, however, can except certain upgrades that help improve that range (example: pulse stabilization device).  Will mostly be a requisition only type deal for humans.

- "Flint" style Plasma will be more conventional in stats, basically upgunned versions of the Russian AP weapons from the BFoGs supplement.  Some will have the ability to "splash", in effect be similar to using Frag-12 shotgun shells.  Some prototypes can be used as Cal V picks by humans.

- Lasers are, well, Laser-type weapons using scale-numbered d6s (4d6 rifle, 3d6 pistol), with moderate range, and the added bonus of having multiple laser-based upgrades automatically.  Many will be Cal V picks by humans.

- "Upgunned Kinetic" (GAET guns, multi-purpose missile launchers, advanced RPGs) will be the most commonly available to CETT characters.  Still fudging a bit with the stats, but I do know that the 6mm rifle will be 5d4 damage, with the general direction being "high base damage, high range" without as many frills.

- Also, there is a "class" of alien weapons that I haven't mentioned yet, called "Crystal".  Think Eldar from WH40K, only if they were built by the Atlantians from Atlantis: The Lost Empire.  Essentially the opposite of CETT's "get around the DR via extreme base damage", with an "low damage (for it's size), very high AP".  Kind of still in the planning phases, stats wise.

- Finally, am working on "Custom Baseline" human weapons, an in-universe result of an "EX-Caliber" initiative that tries to take the best parts of Earth's weapon designs, smoosh them together, and then further upgrade them using captured alien alloys.  Highlights include an automatic handgun in .454 Cassul, a 6.8mm assault rifle with all the trimmings, and a .30 machine gun that you can shoot while standing up.  Most available to humans, even those not CETT, and can be used in public without arousing too much suspicion.

For those wondering, the main difference between "Upgunned Kinetic" and "Custom Baseline" is that Upgunned looks more far future (ie. Battlefield 2142, Starcraft, Halo), while Custom looks like someone mashed some different guns together (probably using Pimp My Gun) before adding some glowie sci-fi bits.

Hope to post more soon.
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« Reply #94 on: July 05, 2012, 09:39:19 AM »

- Lasers are, well, Laser-type weapons using scale-numbered d6s (4d6 rifle, 3d6 pistol), with moderate range, and the added bonus of having multiple laser-based upgrades automatically.  Many will be Cal V picks by humans.

- "Upgunned Kinetic" (GAET guns, multi-purpose missile launchers, advanced RPGs) will be the most commonly available to CETT characters.  Still fudging a bit with the stats, but I do know that the 6mm rifle will be 5d4 damage, with the general direction being "high base damage, high range" without as many frills.
I would be tempted to flip these around, or change the way laser damage falls off over distance.  (The more I think about laser damage, the more I want it to fall off over distance.  It doesn't get harder to hit your target, but each hit does less damage.  I would change the laser falloff at range to -1 or -2 damage per range increment, instead of the current "minus one damage die."  I'm not sure if that would overpower the lasers though.)

- Finally, am working on "Custom Baseline" human weapons, an in-universe result of an "EX-Caliber" initiative that tries to take the best parts of Earth's weapon designs, smoosh them together, and then further upgrade them using captured alien alloys.  Highlights include an automatic handgun in .454 Cassul, a 6.8mm assault rifle with all the trimmings, and a .30 machine gun that you can shoot while standing up.  Most available to humans, even those not CETT, and can be used in public without arousing too much suspicion.
A .454 semi-auto won't look like a standard sidearm.  Those rounds are too big to comfortably fit in a handgrip.  You're looking at a magazine well on the side or in front of the grip.  This will be one beastly looking and awesome sidearm.  (I want one already.)

I think the machine gun you want is going to be a prettied up Mk 48.
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« Reply #95 on: July 05, 2012, 05:20:18 PM »

I'm not sure if that would overpower the lasers though.

Me neither, which is why I'm leery in changing it.

A .454 semi-auto won't look like a standard sidearm.  Those rounds are too big to comfortably fit in a handgrip.  You're looking at a magazine well on the side or in front of the grip.

Most likely.  I just remember it being mentioned in a John Ringo book (one of the Looking Glass series, if I remember correctly).

I think the machine gun you want is going to be a prettied up Mk 48.

Probably.  I do know that the assault rifle is semi-based off the ACR system, maybe with some bips and bobs.  Actually, I do remember a certain assault rifle in the Rainbow 6 Patriots reveal trailer (used by the main 6 character) that doesn't quite match any model I know about, which was kind of sci-fi looking (not to mention the face masks kind of match the one shown in the Pre-Order pic for XCOM, so...).

Edit: LOL brain fart.  Tongue
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 09:58:00 PM by RusVal » Logged

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« Reply #96 on: July 05, 2012, 06:51:32 PM »

The .454 Casull handguns were featured in Through the Looking Glass and the other stories in that 'verse.  I don't recall if they were revolvers or semi autos, but I do recall them only being wielded in the Wyvern powered armor.  (Having wheels to scoot alone while prone was a stroke of genius.)  Being a rimmed round presents difficulties for magazine feeding too.  Maybe a top loading P90 type magazine with 10 rounds?  Or the .45 Winchester Magnum, for a rimless shell casing?  .50AE [Action Express] is also a sidearm option.  (Here is the Casull Wikipedia entry with several rounds to compare sizes.)

IMO the XM-8 looks much more futuristic looking than the ACR.  As far as the machine guns go, I'm not sure how much need the CETT has for the really big stuff like M-2 Ma Deuces or even small stuff like the M-240 or M-249.  Belt fed machine guns aren't so necessary with the improvements made in drums and large magazines.  (Which doesn't rule out belt feeding a machine gun out of a backpack.)
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« Reply #97 on: July 05, 2012, 09:18:18 PM »

A .454 semi-auto won't look like a standard sidearm.  Those rounds are too big to comfortably fit in a handgrip.  You're looking at a magazine well on the side or in front of the grip.  This will be one beastly looking and awesome sidearm.  (I want one already.)
(Here is the Casull Wikipedia entry with several rounds to compare sizes.)

I'm not doubting you, I'm just wondering why is this the case?  The Wiki link is missing a pretty important comparison (in my mind) - the .50AE (it's closest size competition).

Here's a pic I found:
(click to show/hide)

The Casull round is thiner then the .50AE, and only a tiny bit longer (41mm vs 45mm) - that 4mm of length doesn't seem enough to make it unable to be put into a semi-auto handgrip.  I've handled a Desert Eagle (handled, but unfortunately not fired) and I don't imagine that 4mm of extra length to the grips would put it into the uncomfortable range for me.

The only problem I can see is the engineering necessary to handle that powerful a round - but even then the energy is only slightly higher then the .50AE (2200J vs 2459J), so that can be dealt with.  Like I said, I'm not saying your wrong here - just that it doesn't make sense to me.  You'd need to be a big dude, for sure, but no bigger then is needed to handle a Desert Eagle in .50AE (and I've seen pretty small women with dainty little hands fire them - so some strapping special forces type should be able to handle 4mm extra).
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MilitiaJim
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« Reply #98 on: July 05, 2012, 09:36:15 PM »

Two: 
1)  Size of the round for operator comfort.
2)  Rimmed rounds don't stack properly.

I have fairly large paws.  Large gloves and all that.  A Desert Eagle is not something I can comfortably wield with one hand.  The straight stack M-1911 fits just right, but the double stack ones are too fat.  YMMV, some folks <3 Glock grips, or the XD, heck some even like the feel of the M-9.

I don't know what the guy who made the .357 Magnum M-1911 did to the magazine, but that grip is going to be pushing it for fitting in my paw.

Maybe when they get to powered armor you're building up the grip to fit the armored hand, but at that point you might as well go with a LAR-15 in .50 Beowulf.
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« Reply #99 on: July 05, 2012, 09:48:38 PM »

I wasn't aware that rimmed rounds don't stack properly.  Makes one wonder if the case could be altered to be more like the .50AE.

Still, with alien alloys and other tech development, you'd want smaller rounds at higher velocities (IMO).  Big ass guns might make you feel like a badass, but I'd rather throw a projectile half the size at twice the velocity (via super science alien advancement magic).
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RusVal
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« Reply #100 on: July 05, 2012, 10:35:29 PM »

IMO the XM-8 looks much more futuristic looking than the ACR.

*Shrug* To each their own.  Though I have to wonder that, sci-fi tradition or no, is a carrying handle that large really necessary?  Wink

As far as the machine guns go, I'm not sure how much need the CETT has for the really big stuff like M-2 Ma Deuces or even small stuff like the M-240 or M-249.

Suppression fire is still useful against the squishier smarter enemies, and sometimes you just need a wall of high-velocity lead(ish) up in a hurry.  Then again, there are some similar laser and plasma weapons that could do the job.  Then again again...

Still, with alien alloys and other tech development, you'd want smaller rounds at higher velocities (IMO).  Big ass guns might make you feel like a badass, but I'd rather throw a projectile half the size at twice the velocity (via super science alien advancement magic).

*Shrug...again* The argument about wide vs. skinny has been done for decades now, and I don't believe myself enough of an expert to decide which way is the way, though I do figure that "spikes", sort of a halfway between slug and flechette, might be desirable.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 10:30:15 AM by RusVal » Logged

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« Reply #101 on: July 06, 2012, 06:30:04 AM »

Still, with alien alloys and other tech development, you'd want smaller rounds at higher velocities (IMO).  Big ass guns might make you feel like a badass, but I'd rather throw a projectile half the size at twice the velocity (via super science alien advancement magic).
Larger bullets generally do a better job of transferring their energy to the target.  Zippy rounds are really good for stuff way the heck over there, but long range (over 200 meters) firefights are unusual.  That's why the Beowulf/M-4's designed range is, like the AK-47, 200 meters.  You also have space for building sabot and explosive rounds. 

If we're playing with Science! then we want .50 BMG rounds to be reasonable rifle rounds.  Big, fast and able to shred most things folks use for cover.   Grin

Hmm.  For ripping open the armored baddies, best is probably an OICW style 25mm+ with shaped charge explosive rounds.  Or the Skyranger can, while landing or once down, deploy a few Switchblade type drones that the operatives can call down on heavy enemy units.
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« Reply #102 on: July 06, 2012, 11:29:40 AM »

Larger bullets generally do a better job of transferring their energy to the target.  

Which helps when you need to stop something big mid-charge.

Zippy rounds are really good for stuff way the heck over there, but long range (over 200 meters) firefights are unusual.

Though I can see long-range zippy being useful against small zippy flying enemies.  Though lasers would probably be better for that.

If we're playing with Science! then we want .50 BMG rounds to be reasonable rifle rounds.  Big, fast and able to shred most things folks use for cover.   Grin

But what if you can get a 5.56-like assault rifle with the power of a .50 BMG?  Which means that the .50 BMG is as powerful as a 25mm?  And the 25mm...

Hmm.  For ripping open the armored baddies, best is probably an OICW style 25mm+ with shaped charge explosive rounds.

Hmm, maybe.  I do think that an XM307 dedicated to the 25mm version firing airbursting grenades that explode in fragments that burn with plasmic fire would be quite devastating.

It would also be cool if there was, like, an underslung pump-action 25mm airburst launcher.  Ya'know, for that Aliens pulse rifle feel.

Or the Skyranger can, while landing or once down, deploy a few Switchblade type drones that the operatives can call down on heavy enemy units.

Ah, drones.  Gonna have to dedicate an entire post to those, cause that is one thing there is no shortage of in this setting is un"manned" vehicles.

You got your SHIV-like drones, you got certain mini-tank designs, you got your "tank slave" designs, you got flyers, you got walkers, you got flying walkers (mini-Metal Gear... with jetpacks?!)... and all that's just on the human side!  Though admittedly, using drones is part sort of humanity's shtick in this universe (force multipliers all around!).
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« Reply #103 on: July 06, 2012, 12:53:05 PM »

Lasers are going to be the best against zippy things, with explosives being a close second.

Hmm.  Ya know, CETT does have some bleeding edge fabrication gear.  They could stock a dozen small arms calibers, and let the agents go to town with what they want/like/know/decide they need.  Capturing a UFO crashed or landed out in the boonies requires a different loadout from running through a City repelling a terror attack.

The M-242 Bushmaster Cannon's 25mm AP rounds have a slug not much larger that a .50 BMG slug.  An AP round for the man portable 25mm grenade launcher would have to be a HEAT round, which is not necessarily a problem.

Switchblade type drones can be part of the team's gear, especially if they are deployed via CETT's aircraft.  The UGVs seem like a nice niche for, wait, nevermind.  I thought there was an Expert Class that did unmanned vehicles.  We may have to whip one up.
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« Reply #104 on: July 06, 2012, 01:19:50 PM »

Hmm.  Ya know, CETT does have some bleeding edge fabrication gear.  They could stock a dozen small arms calibers, and let the agents go to town with what they want/like/know/decide they need.  Capturing a UFO crashed or landed out in the boonies requires a different loadout from running through a City repelling a terror attack.

True, CETT does have fabrication gear that is well ahead of most Earth nations, but they are facing enemies that have RTS levels of fabrication and deployment.  As such, they have to manage their resources wisely, and would probably want to cut down on things that would cause logistical issues, like a large number of differing calibers for the same weapon types.  Just sayin'.

I thought there was an Expert Class that did unmanned vehicles.  We may have to whip one up.

Pretty sure it's the Foward, probably using Wheelman as a base class, since I don't believe the Wheelman's abilities specify that they have to be in the vehicle they use.
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