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Author Topic: Extinguishers  (Read 1923 times)
Mister Andersen
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« on: August 06, 2007, 12:36:15 PM »

Are there rules fror how they work, and whether or not a given extinguisher can put out a fire of a given size?
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Crafty_Pat
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2007, 12:49:32 PM »

Are there rules fror how they work, and whether or not a given extinguisher can put out a fire of a given size?

Extinguisher rules are in the Fire Damage section.
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Mister Andersen
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2007, 03:09:40 PM »

So they are, thanks.

That brings up issues of capacity - how many rounds worth of dousing do you get out of a Discrete, Tiny, Small, etc fire extinguisher?

As Pyrokinesis doesn't include any capacity to stop fire, would augmenting them with a fire extinguisher be a viable way of modelling such things?

How hot is a pyrokinetic's flame-jet attack considered to be for purposes of AP? Or would you make X equal to their psion bonus?

As a psionic attack is considered a hurled attack for purposes of feats and class abilities, is it considered by default a 1 handed weapon?

Further, how does a psionic attack's 1/round limitation interact with Darting Weapon (which grants a final hurled attack), Snap Shot (granting a final attack with the same weapon that's just taken down an opponent) or Steel Rain (ability to use Burst trick).
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Crafty_Pat
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2007, 03:51:18 PM »

That brings up issues of capacity - how many rounds worth of dousing do you get out of a Discrete, Tiny, Small, etc fire extinguisher?

Per the (un)written rules, as many as your GC allows. Wink

At a mechanically inclined table, I might go with a battery life value and call it a day.

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As Pyrokinesis doesn't include any capacity to stop fire, would augmenting them with a fire extinguisher be a viable way of modelling such things?

Augmenting what?

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How hot is a pyrokinetic's flame-jet attack considered to be for purposes of AP? Or would you make X equal to their psion bonus?

I'll leave this one to Scott, but I'd go with the simplest option.  Tongue
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2007, 04:50:22 PM »

Short answer? You're going to have to wait on some of these. Psion rules are a conversion, not a full treatment, and are not officially supported beyond the initial release of the basic conversion rules. We will not let psionics sit fallow forever, but they do sit below other more pressing projects. In the meantime...

How hot is a pyrokinetic's flame-jet attack considered to be for purposes of AP? Or would you make X equal to their psion bonus?

If it doesn't list it, it doesn't have AP. 2 types of damage (stress and lethal) is probably enough, anyway. Good suggestion on the psion level thing, but right now we're not of a mind/capacity to change/upgrade the rules.

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As a psionic attack is considered a hurled attack for purposes of feats and class abilities, is it considered by default a 1 handed weapon?

Enhhh...I would say it's considered a no-handed weapon Smiley. As a power, it's not really a "weapon" at all (note that in Spellbound the ray was developed specifically for modeling the use of a "weaponized" power), but I'm sure Morg was being generous here to allow characters to take a forte with their powers, psion Soldiers to apply their Weapon Specialist abilities to it, and open the door for future damage/effect enhancing feats and abilties to add on to it. HOWEVER, the no-handed rule would prevent both pyrokinetic Triggermen or Snipers (which I expect is what you're getting at here).

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Further, how does a psionic attack's 1/round limitation interact with Darting Weapon (which grants a final hurled attack), Snap Shot (granting a final attack with the same weapon that's just taken down an opponent) or Steel Rain (ability to use Burst trick).

The 1/round limitation trumps the feats. Powers are not just weapons with a skill check attached, that skill check and the 1/round limitation is there to prevent abuse. The end. Thus, some feats cannot be used with psionic powers, as they break the explicit brake applied to powers in general. I would expect a future Maxim or other "blaster" psion expert class might break these rules through their class abilities, but that's the exception rather than the rule.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 04:55:51 PM by Alex » Logged

Mister Andersen
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2007, 06:51:01 PM »

Quote from: Alex
HOWEVER, the no-handed rule would prevent both pyrokinetic Triggermen or Snipers (which I expect is what you're getting at here).

Sniper & Triggerman not so much, as they specifically refer to 2-handed weapons and 1-handed firearms respectively. Sweepers, however, have a greater potential for this as their abilities only specify 1-handed weapons. (Darth Vader is *totally* a Wheelman/Martial Artist/Sweeper, which is where the idea of applying their class abilities to Powers usage sprang from).

Quote from: Alex
The 1/round limitation trumps the feats. Powers are not just weapons with a skill check attached, that skill check and the 1/round limitation is there to prevent abuse. The end. Thus, some feats cannot be used with psionic powers, as they break the explicit brake applied to powers in general.

At which point the question arises of why bother specifying psionic attacks are considered hurled attacks for the purposes of feats and such in the first place, since none of the things that enhance hurled attacks can apparantly ever be applied to them (admittedly a bit of Trick Shot would still seem to work, but, well, meh - people have better things to acquire than half a feat).

Quote from: Alex
I'm sure Morg was being generous here to allow characters to take a forte with their powers, psion Soldiers to apply their Weapon Specialist abilities to it, and open the door for future damage/effect enhancing feats and abilties to add on to it.

Well, you could just have stipulated that Psionic Attack was its own proficiency and you'd still have that open door without a rule mechanic that does nothing.
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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2007, 11:15:01 PM »

Sniper & Triggerman not so much, as they specifically refer to 2-handed weapons and 1-handed firearms respectively.

Sniper abilities apply to 2 handed weapons, not 2 handed firearms. This is specifically so that you can have bow-based Snipers. Definition of handedness can be very important in that case.

Quote from: Alex
The 1/round limitation trumps the feats. Powers are not just weapons with a skill check attached, that skill check and the 1/round limitation is there to prevent abuse. The end. Thus, some feats cannot be used with psionic powers, as they break the explicit brake applied to powers in general.

At which point the question arises of why bother specifying psionic attacks are considered hurled attacks for the purposes of feats and such in the first place, since none of the things that enhance hurled attacks can apparantly ever be applied to them (admittedly a bit of Trick Shot would still seem to work, but, well, meh - people have better things to acquire than half a feat).[/quote]

Because there are still a number of feats that can, indeed, effect psionic attacks? As for feats, off the top of my head there's still Weapon Focus and Hurled Master (from Practice Makes Perfect) that would specifically affect powers as hurled attacks, plus you get to use all the other general ranged feats (that do not increase number of attacks) with them. So the "problem" here is simply that those hurled feats do not override the 1 attack/round limit on psion attacks...which they were never explicitly intended to do. Just because they count as hurled attacks does not make them deficient because every option for hurled attacks does not apply to them - show me a hurled attack that does equivalent fire damage and I'll be a little more sympathetic.

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Quote from: Alex
I'm sure Morg was being generous here to allow characters to take a forte with their powers, psion Soldiers to apply their Weapon Specialist abilities to it, and open the door for future damage/effect enhancing feats and abilties to add on to it.

Well, you could just have stipulated that Psionic Attack was its own proficiency and you'd still have that open door without a rule mechanic that does nothing.

Yeah, but you're actually gaining MORE BENEFIT this way - at least there's SOME feats apply to psion abilities when they're hurled attacks, vs. the zero feats that apply to a psion proficiency. For starters, they benefit from the upcoming Practice Makes Perfect.

But I guess we screwed that up, too Tongue
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Morgenstern
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2007, 07:44:30 AM »

I seem to rember putting that clause in there primarily so the feats that increase range could be applied to powers. It mght be better to put together an actual list of feats that affect hurled weapons that tryig to talk about it purely in the abstract.
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2008, 07:35:28 AM »

Would an exploding extinguisher push things away, and if so, how far?
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2008, 03:56:12 PM »

Would an exploding extinguisher push things away, and if so, how far?

I don't see it moving people around, particularly. The ussual initiative damage associated with explosions and maybe a little shrapnel, but not 5 ft or more displacement.
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2008, 10:26:18 PM »

Unless you got a critical perfect strike onto the nozzle, then it's like a rocket.

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