My First Shotgun

[Tegyrius]

It's all good.  Not like you're advocating Dragonsbreath rounds or something... 

- C.

[TheTSKoala]

LOL.  Quite correct.  Just.. new owner.. new user.. I don't want to turn his brain into a law class on the practical application of lethal force. 

[Gentry]

Have no fear, you two. This is precisely the sort of commentary I wanted to generate in a thread like this: candid thoughts from real users.

I'm grasping the points you're making, be assured.

A technical question that's just as sure to have partisans on each side: cleaning rod, or cleaning cable? 

[TheTSKoala]

Oh.. in THAT case...

*laughs*  No.  I completely understand where Tegyrius is coming from, and I think that due to my previous and current training levels, I'm more available to the ability to 'walk' the ladder, so to speak.  Home users, I might have to admit that Teg might be right on his stance.  I'm just very hesitant of telling people to walk hot in a strange environment.  Dark.  Anxiety is up.  Adrenaline is pumping.  Without a bunny in the hole, it gives you at least one extra action as a space between accidentally putting a 6 inch hole in a loved one.  That said.. it also gives you one extra action to do if you need to get rounds down range.  (While training is good.. I always find until they're seated in the situation.. the training doesn't take hold.)

Like.. you can know your paces and spread pattern.. you can know time between shots.. you can remember that white striped shells are Phosphorus.. (I'M KIDDING!).. but once you take all that.. and place it to a point where family might be in danger, you can't see well, and you're half awake.. meh.  I side on the ere of caution.. only because you can't undo a dead family member.

As for cable or rod?  I prefer Rod.  But I'm also meticulous on my cleaning.  Hinges, bore, springs, etc.

[Gentry]

I prefer Rod.

That's what she said.

And to be fair, I'm kinda leaning toward both right now. The cable system Otis puts out looks great for the "after every use" cleaning, with the disassemble-and-rod-it-out process saved for periodic (annual?) deep cleaning or something. Or am I wrong?

[MilitiaJim]

It's all good.  Not like you're advocating Dragonsbreath rounds or something... 

- C.

Your lady will be VERY DISPLEASED if you use dragon breath rounds in the house.  I'm just sayin'.

[TheTSKoala]

I prefer Rod.

That's what she said.

And to be fair, I'm kinda leaning toward both right now. The cable system Otis puts out looks great for the "after every use" cleaning, with the disassemble-and-rod-it-out process saved for periodic (annual?) deep cleaning or something. Or am I wrong?

Oh no.  You're quite correct.  ...but you did say OR.  lol. 

[Agent 333]

Well, if it's a boolean OR then both is still a correct answer.

[Krensky]

English or and boolean OR are the same thing. Either/or is the English XOR.

[Agent 333]

But it has become common English usage to use and/or when a boolean OR is intended, thus liming English OR to boolean XOR.

[TheTSKoala]

But it has become common English usage to use and/or when a boolean OR is intended, thus liming English OR to boolean XOR.

I can almost picture Arnold Schwarzenegger listening to this.. he head going back and forth.. his head starting to hurt.. grabbing a shotgun and throwing up a tag line "Boolean THIS!" and shooting away the TV.

[foproy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waRpvJzBEg4&feature=g-u-u&context=G21e9e25FUAAAAAAAAAA
this has a good representation of the different types of shells being fired, also its pretty damn impressive seeing someone shoot three clays hand thrown with a pump shotgun.

also on the bird shot one thing he did not say was the wound from bird shot at close range would be much harder to operate on since it throws out so much more shot and its so tiny.

[Tegyrius]

LOL.  Quite correct.  Just.. new owner.. new user.. I don't want to turn his brain into a law class on the practical application of lethal force.  

True that.  And neither of us has passed the Oklahoma bar exams, I suspect.

*laughs*  No.  I completely understand where Tegyrius is coming from, and I think that due to my previous and current training levels, I'm more available to the ability to 'walk' the ladder, so to speak.  Home users, I might have to admit that Teg might be right on his stance.  I'm just very hesitant of telling people to walk hot in a strange environment.  Dark.  Anxiety is up.  Adrenaline is pumping.  Without a bunny in the hole, it gives you at least one extra action as a space between accidentally putting a 6 inch hole in a loved one.  That said.. it also gives you one extra action to do if you need to get rounds down range.  (While training is good.. I always find until they're seated in the situation.. the training doesn't take hold.)

All valid points, and I'll admit I didn't consider the kids issue, nor the one of other family members who may show up unexpectedly.  In my household, it's just me and my wife, and we have implicit protocols in our common married language by which we announce our presence when we're coming in late.

And to be fair, I'm kinda leaning toward both right now. The cable system Otis puts out looks great for the "after every use" cleaning, with the disassemble-and-rod-it-out process saved for periodic (annual?) deep cleaning or something. Or am I wrong?

I have the Otis system for rifles and handguns and its advantage is that it fits much more handily in a range bag.  However, I've found that I don't typically need to clean in the middle of a range session or a class day.  Cleaning occurs at home or, in the case of a multi-day class, back at the hotel... which means the size isn't so much of a virtue.

Also, this is less of an issue for shotguns, but you can't use a cable system to knock loose a squib or a stuck casing.

also on the bird shot one thing he did not say was the wound from bird shot at close range would be much harder to operate on since it throws out so much more shot and its so tiny.

Dude, seriously.  If you're selecting defensive ammunition based on the difficulty of trauma surgery, you need to re-examine your priorities.

- C.

[foproy]

it actually comes from some of the defensive magazines i have read. many of those will talk about the idea that a corpse cant sue. its not so much the pain, more the greater chance of death. fact is that if this person is not in the mindset to force me to pull the trigger, i don't want him coming back for revenge when he heals.

[TheTSKoala]

LOL.  Quite correct.  Just.. new owner.. new user.. I don't want to turn his brain into a law class on the practical application of lethal force.  

True that.  And neither of us has passed the Oklahoma bar exams, I suspect.

...Oklahoma HAS a bar association?!  ...are you sure...??  lol.  No. My study into law stopped after my Bachelor's.  No interest, nor purpose in pursuing something deeper than that.  I let the DoJ do their job as long as they.. most of the time.. let me do mine.

*laughs*  No.  I completely understand where Tegyrius is coming from, and I think that due to my previous and current training levels, I'm more available to the ability to 'walk' the ladder, so to speak.  Home users, I might have to admit that Teg might be right on his stance.  I'm just very hesitant of telling people to walk hot in a strange environment.  Dark.  Anxiety is up.  Adrenaline is pumping.  Without a bunny in the hole, it gives you at least one extra action as a space between accidentally putting a 6 inch hole in a loved one.  That said.. it also gives you one extra action to do if you need to get rounds down range.  (While training is good.. I always find until they're seated in the situation.. the training doesn't take hold.)

All valid points, and I'll admit I didn't consider the kids issue, nor the one of other family members who may show up unexpectedly.  In my household, it's just me and my wife, and we have implicit protocols in our common married language by which we announce our presence when we're coming in late.

As it is just myself, my wife and my greyhounds (currently), I can understand that.  But I do have co-workers with young ones, and I've done the leg work to help 'better child protect' their home with their gear.  ...to the point where we once rented a jackhamer and put a very large hole in his basement to sink a safe. (That was FUN btw!)  But yes.. as much as we love our kids.. remember that sometimes their appreciation for life and death isn't the same as an adult.  Even if you train them how to use the gun.. the maturity still might not be there to understand what happens to the other side of the boomstick.