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Author Topic: Twinborn Speculation (Alloy of Law additional thoughts)  (Read 3095 times)
Mister Andersen
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« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2012, 04:18:55 PM »

Metals affect reproductive capacity all the time, and given that the Mistborn trilogy is essentially predicated on the genetic legacy of those original synthetic mistborn and the magic system in question deals specifically with artificially passing genetic traits onto other people, I'd say that hemalurgy probably works exactly that way...
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 04:43:49 PM by Mister Andersen » Logged

Agent 333
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« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2012, 04:37:17 PM »

Yeah, one of the GOD metals can give you genetically inheritable powers. I doubt that a normal Hemalurgic Spike would do the trick. Now maybe a Larasium Spike...

Keep in mind that Hemalurgy is about Ruin. I doubt any magic focused on destruction could generate a sustainable bloodline. For all we know, being spiked makes you sterile. Who knows how much Sazed had to 'fix' Spook at the end of HoA?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 04:39:34 PM by Agent 333 » Logged

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Raven
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« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2012, 11:08:55 PM »

Spikes don't make you sterile, as there are Koloss-blooded people in Alloy of Law and Koloss were rather peverse hemalurgical creations. It also means the effects can breed true in that case. It also means that spikes of normal metals could have some effect.  (I just thought of this and the implications when you mentioned about spikes and inheritance, although I still wonder about multi-metal Mistings.... seems odd).

Also, if you have a spike of Larasium.... shave off some pieces and burn 'em. Even if you were mundane, you're now an instant Mistborn.  Wink

Hm.... I hope we see Brandon wrote follow-ups to Alloy of Law. I'd totally love to see his plans of three trilogies on Scarial plus this one book turn into 4 trilogies Wink.

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Agent 333
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« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2012, 09:57:44 AM »

Yeah, not sure 'bout the Koloss blooded thing. One thing I thought of is it might be an effect of just having one of the strength spikes instead of all four. Make people think "he's part koloss", but no actual 'blood' involved.
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Aiken Frost
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« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2012, 12:18:58 PM »

The thing with the koloss-blooded people in Alloy of Law have nothing to do with spikes, actually. After the events of the Mistborn Trilogy, Harmony changed how koloss works. They are a real species now, having nothing to do with hemalurgy anymore. So, in the AoL era, the koloss are a real, breeding, species.
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Agent 333
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« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2012, 12:27:51 PM »

Do you have a source for that? I kinda got that impression, but it was kinda unclear in the book. A quote from Brandon on the subject would be sublime.
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ZetaStriker
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« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2012, 11:20:14 AM »

That's not entirely true, Aiken. As was discussed previously, the Koloss can breed now, but also use their spikes to initiate new members. I think it was the "newspaper" that Brandon wrote and had mocked up as advertisement for Alloy of Law, the Elendel Daily, that directly mentioned Koloss that claimed to have once been from the city.
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« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2012, 05:54:27 PM »

I don't think Hemalurgy works that way  Undecided
There's nothing in the books to support that. At all. You get the power from the spike, it doesn't change your genetics.
Per Brandon Sanderson, Hemalurgy works by attaching "spiritual DNA" from the victim to the recipient by means of the spike. So while it isn't typical real world genetics, it is at least a functionally similar system.

However, the whole "4 metals" thing Raven suggested isn't something I would expect to work. The all/one/none thing isn't something we have information on to judge workarounds, but in absence of any absence to predict it, I wouldn't count on it. If I were running the eugenics program, it would be 15-spiked persons. (Of course, I also have an entirely separate theory based on what Brandon said about burning spikes which would make the eugenics program unnecessary if it works. So there's that.)
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Aiken Frost
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« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2012, 12:55:15 AM »

Do you have a source for that? I kinda got that impression, but it was kinda unclear in the book. A quote from Brandon on the subject would be sublime.

Sure! Obviously, here comes spoilers:

Quote
Quote from: kaimipono on October 15, 2008, 05:55:55 AM
-On a broader level, is hemalurgy officially dead, then?  Or is it still extant in some Ruin-free (but still messy) form?  (If it's gone, is there any imbalance since Preservation's magic power is kept and Ruin's isn't?)

-Also, are koloss just naturally bad-tempered, even without Ruin's influence?  Cause the koloss are still taking swipes at Sazed immediately after the merger. 

-(And, does Sazed zap all the koloss?  Did they all get toasted by the sun?  But what about Human and his friends underground?  Are there still koloss around?  Just wonderin'.)

Brandon:
1)  Is Hemalurgy dead?  No, not at all.  It, like the other two powers, was not created by Ruin or Preservation, but by the natural state of the world and its interaction with the gods who created it.  It still requires the same method of creation, but very few people are aware of how it works. 

2)  Koloss were bad tempered before Ruin's influence, though he certainly made them worse.  They were designed by the Lord Ruler to be aggressive, so aggressive that they would destroy themselves if they got loose and away from him.  (This was intentional.  Note that he didn't give the spark of  humanity in them enough credit, and they managed to overcome this and 'evolve' in a way to keep their species going, even after he died.) 

3) There ARE still koloss around, though many of them were vaporized.  Human is alive.  Sazed took pity on them, however, and they have been transformed.  They are now a race that breeds true, like the Kandra, and have different thought processes from what they once had.  You'll see more of them in the sequel series.

Bold is mine. You can find more at the Brandonothology.

Quote from: ZetaStriker
That's not entirely true, Aiken. As was discussed previously, the Koloss can breed now, but also use their spikes to initiate new members. I think it was the "newspaper" that Brandon wrote and had mocked up as advertisement for Alloy of Law, the Elendel Daily, that directly mentioned Koloss that claimed to have once been from the city.

That not exactly true. The Elendel Daily is written as an in-universe document and, because of that, is subject to misinterpretation and errors of understanding of the "authors". Sure, the spikes might still work to create new koloss, but the Allomancer Jak stuff is probably just full of sh*t. Grin
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« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2012, 11:22:31 AM »

Well, if that's the quote you're using, it's not hemalurgic ability being passed on, it's direct godly intervention causing a hemalurgic mutation to become a new species. Absent that, I'd say that hemalurgy can't be passed on genetically.
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« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2012, 05:10:26 PM »

Agent 333 is correct. As Brandon described it, Hemalurgy functions by ripping out a piece of a person's soul and essentially "stapling" it to the recipient. I tend to think of it as the Spiritual Realm's version of body modification. Just like how tattoos and facelifts aren't passed on genetically, neither are traits gained through Hemalurgy. (NOTE that this is my take on it. We have no information confirming that Hemalurgically granted traits are passed on outside of divine intervention.)

If you want to breed a Mistborn, you're better off trying it the old-fashioned way: breeding Allomancers with Allomancers over the course of multiple generations. But even then, Allomancy and Feruchemy aren't a part of biological DNA, but rather spiritual DNA, which operates on an entirely separate level. For example, Word of God is that you can have identical twins with different powers - or one with powers and one entirely without.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 07:04:29 PM by KChan » Logged
Aiken Frost
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« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2012, 06:17:31 PM »

Well, if that's the quote you're using, it's not hemalurgic ability being passed on, it's direct godly intervention causing a hemalurgic mutation to become a new species. Absent that, I'd say that hemalurgy can't be passed on genetically.

And I never said it was the case of hemalurgy being passed on by genetics. My point was another: the koloss on the Alloy of Law time are truebreeding creatures, having nothing to do with hemalurgy anymore. Ergo, the half-koloss are caused by nothing more than humans being raped by full-blooded koloss and not by degrading hemalurgical spikes or partial hemalurgical transformation, as initially theorized by you.

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ZetaStriker
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« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2012, 01:06:36 AM »

The Elendel Daily article was full of bs, but that's exactly why it seems reliable. It was written discrediting claims that Koloss could have been from the city, which makes the actual source he's referencing sound more reliable given what we know of how Hemulurgy works.
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« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2012, 12:09:06 PM »

Agent 333 is correct. As Brandon described it, Hemalurgy functions by ripping out a piece of a person's soul and essentially "stapling" it to the recipient. I tend to think of it as the Spiritual Realm's version of body modification. Just like how tattoos and facelifts aren't passed on genetically, neither are traits gained through Hemalurgy. (NOTE that this is my take on it. We have no information confirming that Hemalurgically granted traits are passed on outside of divine intervention.)


Actually, this came up in the recent reddit conversation. I had always understood Hemalurgy as actually altering the recipients spiritual DNA. See question #7 below.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy_Bookclub/comments/oji9u/the_alloy_of_law_qa_with_brandon_sanderson/

I've got some questions. Spoilers!

    Why on earth does Marsh have a Feruchemical Atium Spike? You've said that Ironeyes is in fact Marsh. Did Ruin spike someone for him? Or did Sazed grant him the power?

    Is it significant that Miles said that the "men of gold and red" would come and rule. Is there a connection between this and the "gold and red" cigar box that Miles keeps The Suit's comings and goings on?

    How long before WoK is Alloy of Law? I heard somewhere that it's a hundred years, but I don't think that's right.

    A little safer question- Why did you not have Waxillium fall for Marasi? Why stick with the contract with Steris?

    Does the general population know about Nicrosil and Chromium?

Then I have one or two Original Trilogy questions.

Six. TenSoon wonders, and I wonder too- How can Kandra think and be sentient without Brains? Doesn't the body need a physical coordinator to relay between the Physical and Cognitive realm? Or do the spikes do a good enough job with that?

Seven. You've said that Inquisitors could have children. Would those children have a better chance at being Allomancers compared to if they had the kids before they were Inquisitors?

Thank you so much Brandon! I love your books. They have such great characters, incredible plot lines and such intricate world building. And "You're Welcome"? Priceless.

EDIT-8. I almost forgot! If you burn Nicrosil, will it deplete Feruchemial Storages? Or just Allomantic?

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[]mistborn 6 points 15 days ago

1) Dead inquisitors Vin killed. Some were granted the spike for reasons I haven't spoken of yet.

2) This is all very significant.

3) I intended them to be happening roughly close to one another, with WOK slightly before.

4) Marasi, as she was in Alloy of Law, was just plain wrong for Wax. As I write books, I allow my characters to grow more free-form (while my setting and plot are outlined in detail.) In writing the book, I felt that a Marasi hook-up at the end would not only be wrong for the character, but wrong for the story. If I do direct sequels (which I probably will) perhaps things will change.

5) Yes, though they are like this world's version of advanced physics in our world. They've heard of them, but many an average person might be hard-pressed to say exactly what they do.

6) I imagine Kandra having a non-centralized nervous system, with brain power spread through their bodies. Well, non-centralized is probably the wrong way to say it. They have lobes of thought and memory attached to muscles here and there, and don't have a single 'brain.' They certainly have brain-like material, though.

7) Yes, but there also could be...complications.

Cool Just Allomantic.

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