Altering which ability scores apply to which traits.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

I should note importantly before I start that the following is not an attempt at a "fix", nor an attempt to "make things make sense", nor even an idea I'm terribly wedded to.

For the fantasy concepts I've been thinking of it just represents how they work better.



Question: What are the unforeseen consequences of giving Will Saves to Charisma and Ranged Attack Bonus (plus maybe Initiative) to Wisdom?

[spinningdice]

As a Campaign Quality/House Rule or gained by a feat/ability?

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Campaign Quality.  It seems like way too much change for a feat.

[Blankbeard]

I'm not seeing a problem with that.  I'd expect dexterity to be somewhat less attractive but not enough to worry about.  If bonuses with hurled weapons stay with dexterity you'd see a split but most ranged attackers will just swap the wisdom and dexterity scores and be done with it.

The only oddity I see is that the same people who have hard to resist magic are good at resisting magic but that is hardly a problem and might fit well with some kinds of magic.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

If bonuses with hurled weapons stay with dexterity you'd see a split but most ranged attackers will just swap the wisdom and dexterity scores and be done with it.

I kind of meant for "ranged" to include "hurled", but I might leave that in Dexterity.  It makes an interesting split of warriors.

The only oddity I see is that the same people who have hard to resist magic are good at resisting magic but that is hardly a problem and might fit well with some kinds of magic.

Indeed.  But I can also fiddle around so that DCs are based on some other score (and the other two components would be based on the remain two scores).  I haven't gotten that far yet.

[Krensky]

It would make Elves even better archers and would make an archer Monk appealing.

Other then that, it shouldn't do too much.

[Mister Andersen]

I've always thought it was wierd that Wisdom rather than Charisma was the modifier for Will saves; it makes little sense given the fluff associated with the attributes. However, if using Charisma for your Will bonus, I'd then use Wisdom for the Wealth bonus (which, again, makes more sense from a canny management of resources perspective rather than the 'you're cute, have more stuff' holdover from Spycraft).

I'd probably leave Dex as the ranged attack mod -- it is after all the hand/eye coordination stat.

On a related note, it'd be interesting to completely drop Defence as a stat and simply use Reflex +10 as the base static DC

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

I'd probably leave Dex as the ranged attack mod -- it is after all the hand/eye coordination stat.

But if you have bad senses you're not so good at targeting.

....if using Charisma for your Will bonus, I'd then use Wisdom for the Wealth bonus (which, again, makes more sense from a canny management of resources perspective rather than the 'you're cute, have more stuff' holdover from Spycraft).

That's a possibility.  Though that would lead to Wisdom giving you a bonus to Panache, which then gives you a bonus to Appearance.  That still might not be a bad thing.

It would make Elves even better archers and would make an archer Monk appealing.

Sweet.  Though I'd probably want to make Wisdom govern Hurled attack bonus in the case of monks if I wanted to be more iconic.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Wait, did anyone else notice that Intimidate is governed by Wisdom? I realize there are differences from D&D, but I can't quite figure that one out.

[Sletchman]

Wait, did anyone else notice that Intimidate is governed by Wisdom? I realize there are differences from D&D, but I can't quite figure that one out.

Yup.  I figured that it was the idea that you know how far to push, and which buttons.  Which makes more sense then many definitions of Charisma or always using Strength (considering Intimidate really is all about words - we have attack rolls and damage codes for physical violence).  I'd certainly allow a player to use Strength in certain situations though.

I've always thought it was wierd that Wisdom rather than Charisma was the modifier for Will saves; it makes little sense given the fluff associated with the attributes. However, if using Charisma for your Will bonus, I'd then use Wisdom for the Wealth bonus (which, again, makes more sense from a canny management of resources perspective rather than the 'you're cute, have more stuff' holdover from Spycraft).

I like this, a lot.  I think I'll be doing this next game - thanks for the idea.

Campaign Quality.  It seems like way too much change for a feat.

I can't see it being a problem as a feat.  I would make the attack bonus attribute swap a trick rather then a perminant switch around and I think a seperate feat that let you add Wisdom to initiative doesn't seem that unbalanced (I'd have both require Dex 13+).  All of it should be simple to script up too if you're interested.

I also think it looks fine for a Campaign Quality (just about anything is fine as a Campaign Quality - your players know about it in advance and can build around / to suit it if it's a problem for their concept).