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Author Topic: Pewter Problems  (Read 2175 times)
Aminar
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« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2012, 03:03:39 PM »

That's thinking like a captolist.  The final empire doesn't run that way.  As evidenced by the TLR's choice locations he wants to be able to find allomancers.  Making it so they're pewter dishes reveal thugs is sound thinking.  Allomantic metals were treated as absurdly common throughout the series.  That suggests they are far from rare(atium and aluminum aside)  Look at Spooks tin barrel. Or the pewter bags used for burning.  If allomantic metals weren't common no alas could obtain them.
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Bill Whitmore
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« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2012, 04:08:10 PM »

Economics aside, why would I want to use Allomantically pure metals in my house?  So some upstart Allomancer would have all the tools he needs to kill me already sitting on my kitchen table?  These are people who eschew the use of metal armor specifically because it is dangerous to have on with Allomancers around.

If you want to think like someone in the Final Empire, if your household doesn't have Allomancers amongst their number, you'd want pewterware that specifically killed or disabled any Allomancer who tried to use YOUR pewter while in YOUR house.
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« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2012, 05:15:18 PM »

Economics aside, why would I want to use Allomantically pure metals in my house?  So some upstart Allomancer would have all the tools he needs to kill me already sitting on my kitchen table?  These are people who eschew the use of metal armor specifically because it is dangerous to have on with Allomancers around.

I'd imagine that they would do it to flaunt their wealth and eccentricities. Perhaps not with pewter, but some of the other Allomantic metals are still quite valuable. What, are they going to use glass utensils to cut and eat their food? That might show that they are afraid of Allomancers. Perhaps it would be viewed as a sign of weakness amongst the other nobles, and everybody knows you can't show weakness, right?

That being said, I think a battle between Allomancers in a kitchen full of metal knives could make for an awesome (albeit, short) fight, indeed!

If you want to think like someone in the Final Empire, if your household doesn't have Allomancers amongst their number, you'd want pewterware that specifically killed or disabled any Allomancer who tried to use YOUR pewter while in YOUR house.

What is the Allomancer going to do? Take a bite out of the cup? Maybe gnaw on it a bit? That sounds like a pretty desperate (or crazy) Allomancer to begin with, no? Wink
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xyzzyllyzzyx
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« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2012, 08:27:11 PM »

Personally, I'd split the difference...pewterware is burnable, but makes you a bit sick.  Enough perhaps to give a one die circumstance penalty for normal use, but small enough that it is still viable for a long pewter-drag. 

Two supporting references for household pewter to be burnable come to mind:

 - In the beginning of Book 1, Vin unknowingly burns pewter that she supposedly got from drinking from pewter goblets, just before Kelsier bursts in and saves her from her old crew leader.
 - Near the end of Well of Ascension, when Vin is rushing back to Luthadel, she finds some pewterware one a farmstead that she thinks to use to burn, though she gives the idea up since she has no way to grind it down finely enough to eat.
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ReaderAt2046
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« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2012, 11:04:10 AM »


 - Near the end of Well of Ascension, when Vin is rushing back to Luthadel, she finds some pewterware one a farmstead that she thinks to use to burn, though she gives the idea up since she has no way to grind it down finely enough to eat.

I just read that passage. Vin specifically notes that the pewter will probably be off. I like the idea of saying that any non-special metal (non-special means not made specifically for Allomancy) costs you a die of power. We could also apply that rule if the narrator wants to use off-peak but still burnable metals.
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Dreamstreamer
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« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2012, 11:51:32 AM »

I just read that passage. Vin specifically notes that the pewter will probably be off. I like the idea of saying that any non-special metal (non-special means not made specifically for Allomancy) costs you a die of power. We could also apply that rule if the narrator wants to use off-peak but still burnable metals.

There are already rules for burning an impure (read: not made specifically for Allomancy) metal on page 271. It's a bit more costly than what you suggest.
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Stubbazubba
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« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2012, 05:52:55 PM »

That's thinking like a captolist.  The final empire doesn't run that way.

It's a plantation economy, like the old South, but I don't see anything non-capitalistic about it; there are wages, there is a standardized currency, noble houses profit from the ventures they manage...  In fact, I fail to see any evidence that it's not a capitalist economy.  It's not a completely free market by any stretch of the imaginatino, and it lacks the robust financial institutions that post-Enlightenment western economies have, but there's no evidence that competing producers don't compete in order to increase market share.

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As evidenced by the TLR's choice locations he wants to be able to find allomancers.  Making it so they're pewter dishes reveal thugs is sound thinking.

IIRC, TLR was pretty apathetic about finding allomancers.  The nobility were supposed to violently prevent  any offspring that wasn't of purely noble birth, thus in theory all Mistings or Mistborn were well-accounted for, making producing Allomantic pewter to find those who slip through a complete waste of resources.  Furthermore, TLR never so much as mentions a desire to find Allomancers.  The Canton of Inquisition likes to promote Allomancers to prepare them to become Inquisitors themselves, but that's a completely internal process; the Cantons might use Allomantic pewter for their tableware for that purpose, but it would still be easier to just beat them all silly, force them to swallow a vial of metals, and then say "Burn it," and see what happens.  No, flooding the market with specially prepared Allomantic pewter isn't really sound thinking, there are already mechanisms in place to account for the Allomancer population, and TLR has no reason to expend resources hunting out every single Misting that slips through them.

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Allomantic metals were treated as absurdly common throughout the series.  That suggests they are far from rare(atium and aluminum aside)  Look at Spooks tin barrel. Or the pewter bags used for burning.  If allomantic metals weren't common no alas could obtain them.

Absurdly common?  You're dealing with Kelsier and his Crew, an extremely capable bunch of Allomancers with connections and reputation throughout the entire Luthadel underground.  They had the Resources and the Influence to hire a Kandra, they can keep themselves constantly equipped with enough Allomantic metals, prepared by and obtained from metallurgists, to use whenever they needed, in whatever way they needed.  The fact that they don't ever run into a metal shortage is not really evidence that the general population just walks around and picks up vials of metals at the grocery store.  I don't think metals are difficult to get hold of for those with a bit of cash, but I think there's a wealth of justification to say that unless it's specifically made to be Allomantic, a metal is going to be too dirty to use without harm.
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Akerbos
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« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2012, 08:00:31 AM »

Even if there are everyday goods suitable for burning, how can the characters even know? Sort of being metallurgists themselves, they would have to try, with possibly fatal consquences.

I think the discussion is moot. Assign a probability that a given item is Allomantic (higher for richer environments, lower for poor ones) and roll it once the character has eaten it. I think the mere chance would discourage any experiments (for characters, not players) in all except the most dire situations.
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ReaderAt2046
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« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2012, 02:42:02 PM »

Even if there are everyday goods suitable for burning, how can the characters even know? Sort of being metallurgists themselves, they would have to try, with possibly fatal consquences.

I think the discussion is moot. Assign a probability that a given item is Allomantic (higher for richer environments, lower for poor ones) and roll it once the character has eaten it. I think the mere chance would discourage any experiments (for characters, not players) in all except the most dire situations.

Anybody can recognize impure metals with a Wits 4 roll.
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ZetaStriker
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« Reply #24 on: February 29, 2012, 01:44:50 PM »

I don't understand how the point is moot when all the text - in the RPG and in the novels - backs that you need a metallurgist in order to get a specific alloy of metal, and that burning impure metals is relatively dangerous. Silverware - by one of the examples posted to contradict this no less - is confirmed to not be of the right alloy, and is therefore dangerous to use. Why would impure metals even be mentioned - in the novels or the RPG - if you could just grind up every piece of metal that came your way and assume to get power from it?

Arguably, it could be said there may be exceptions, although I'd expect them to only exist in possibly noble households. At best I'd assume that they're all off unless the story dictates otherwise, or they spend a Spirit to affect that detail.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 01:57:53 PM by ZetaStriker » Logged
Stubbazubba
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« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2012, 07:16:57 PM »

At best I'd assume that they're all off unless the story dictates otherwise, or they spend a Spirit to affect that detail.

I concur, I think that's fine.  Either I've pre-planned for that to happen (i.e., nobles lock up the party and force them to burn aluminum, but then in their escape attempt they find that the Iron/Steel equipment of the guards is a little Allomantic), or they spend a Spirit to make it so.  That's what Spirit's for.
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Cen
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« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2012, 01:49:55 PM »

We have encountered a similar problem in our game in regards to savants of any kind and the inability to stock enough metal.

We have made some minor house rules adjustments to the resourse/prop rules, chiefly the way that prop regeneration takes place. Rather then have them be replaced over long breathers we use a more story driven system of having replacement take place when a character returns to their "base" or crew HQ for smaller items like metal viles or weapons, with larger props like a horse and carriage "popping" over long breathers (or durring role playing when its fun or appropriate).

Under this system it makes it much easier (or in a lot of cases actully possible) to have enought metal available to go savant or burn pewter for healing but keeps a character from getting over powered in "the field", which I believe is the original intent of the prop rules.
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Crafty_Alex
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« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2012, 02:21:59 PM »

The updated version of the game that's going to the printers will also feature a nigh-unto-universal Allomantic stunt, which allows you to double/quadruple the burn rate of any non-instant burning metal. This should accommodate those who want to get more out of their metal vials.
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ZetaStriker
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« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2012, 02:35:57 PM »

So like some other stunts, you can take it twice to increase the benefit from double to quadruple? Is that how it's primed to work? I have players that may be interested in that fact.

EDIT: Also, does that Stunt come with a drawback? For instance, only receiving passive benefits(pewter endurance/healing, iron/steel's blue lines, etc.)?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 02:38:08 PM by ZetaStriker » Logged
Crafty_Pat
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« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2012, 11:24:06 PM »

So like some other stunts, you can take it twice to increase the benefit from double to quadruple? Is that how it's primed to work? I have players that may be interested in that fact.

Yes, that's the way this particular Stunt works.

Quote
EDIT: Also, does that Stunt come with a drawback? For instance, only receiving passive benefits(pewter endurance/healing, iron/steel's blue lines, etc.)?

No drawback for this one. You take it and it works.
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