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Author Topic: 5E?  (Read 4040 times)
SilvercatMoonpaw
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« Reply #105 on: February 03, 2012, 07:15:25 AM »

I'm good with Shadow Energy.  It's the flip side of Life/Healing.  The duality makes sense to me.
Not a duality I enjoy: it relies on a human idea that there is some special border.
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Agent 333
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« Reply #106 on: February 03, 2012, 07:36:48 AM »

There's one spell in FC that obviates the need for hours of rest between encounters, and doesn't waste the mage's spell points: Touch of Light. That one tiny spell makes it so that the mage just spends a minute or two healing everyone back up, then they continue on with their day. Most mages can even cast it consistently without a roll after a few levels, so if it REALLY matters, just calculate how many rounds it'll take to heal everyone, assume he casts the spell every round, then move on.
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« Reply #107 on: February 03, 2012, 07:58:23 AM »

If only we could Touch of Light 5E.
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Mister Andersen
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« Reply #108 on: February 03, 2012, 08:49:05 AM »

Vitality resetting to full at the end of a scene should be a fundamental mechanical baseline.
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MilitiaJim
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« Reply #109 on: February 03, 2012, 09:31:30 AM »

Vitality resetting to full at the end of a scene should be a fundamental mechanical baseline.
I'm not sure if I would go that far.  That means if you want the fatigue that robs vitality to be part of scenario then it all has to be in once scene.  Unless some other mechanic will be dreamed up by that?
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« Reply #110 on: February 03, 2012, 10:35:05 AM »

Vitality is essentially just ablative armour that prevents you suffering wound damage. The vast majority of computer games these days make their health mechanic an issue during combat, then about a minute or two after the fight is over the regen rate spikes and you're back to full health.

We can be as snobby, old school and elitist about it as we like, but computer games are the doorway through which a very great many people both enter and exit the P&P RPG hobby. For all its faults, I think 4E did exactly the right thing in trying to tap that zeitgeist come diaspora.

As someone on both sides of the GM screen, I hate dealing with hp/vitality recovery rates. I'm also old enough to remember those old SSI AD&D games where I'd be -- very very improabably -- trying to rest up and heal/respell my party in the middle of a dungeon over the course of several hours IC, only to have some damn wandering monster ruin everything.

Given that Spell Points already reset at the end of a scene, it's not any sort of stretch to expect vitality to work exactly the same way.

If you want to represent characters being worn down and run ragged, go with conditions instead. It's trivial to insert a campaign quality that turns off the baseline reduction of condition (grades) at the end of a scene if you want to string out the pain.
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Desertpuma
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« Reply #111 on: February 03, 2012, 10:43:36 AM »

If only we could Touch of Light 5E.

Agreed Gentry...


Of course, if you really wanted to remove healing just run a campaign that had no arcane or divine magic in it and see how it runs from there.
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« Reply #112 on: February 03, 2012, 12:12:26 PM »

There's one spell in FC that obviates the need for hours of rest between encounters, and doesn't waste the mage's spell points: Touch of Light. That one tiny spell makes it so that the mage just spends a minute or two healing everyone back up, then they continue on with their day. Most mages can even cast it consistently without a roll after a few levels, so if it REALLY matters, just calculate how many rounds it'll take to heal everyone, assume he casts the spell every round, then move on.

Yes, and when you think about it it's a stupid image - the party mage, sitting next to you poking you every 6 seconds for the next 4 minutes.  I'm not saying I have a problem with the spell, just that the idea of using it 130 times after every fight doesn't sit right with me.  "[Vitality] is a measure of your character's ability to avoid injurty" - so by the book (page 28) you aren't injured.  So why have it linger?  It's just more bookkeeping, more "the mage casts 130 spells because you are all down 30-40 VP" and it doesn't mean your group needs a Mage to avoid hours of sitting around healing between fights.

i never had that problem in 3.5 with healing people. especially at higher levels with access to spells like mass cure critical and mass heal. and then the spontaneous heal for clerics.

At higher levels (with Heal) it's not as big an issue.  At lower levels though you're always better off attacking, it's just the way the math shakes out - all the way up to heal (beyond it in FC, because the spell "Heal" doesn't actually heal any hit points - and healing wounds is orders of magnitude worse).

Vitality resetting to full at the end of a scene should be a fundamental mechanical baseline.
I'm not sure if I would go that far.  That means if you want the fatigue that robs vitality to be part of scenario then it all has to be in once scene.  Unless some other mechanic will be dreamed up by that?

Not sure what you mean here?  The Fatigued condition wouldn't change by having vitality refresh automatically - it'd still stick around as normal.  Unless you mean you want the players to start the next scene uninjured, but with increased possibility of injury?  If that's the case a simple condition would fill that need - something that makes them refresh to [Percentage] of maximum vitality for the next scene.  Probably magically inflicted, or as a critical injury (or even as a result of "death").

Of course, if you really wanted to remove healing just run a campaign that had no arcane or divine magic in it and see how it runs from there.

Which totally works for campaigns that don't have magic sources.  My problem is that in a campaign with magic, healing sucks.  You're better of using the Medicine skill to fix wounds then you are magic (even without any sort of kit).  Even when healing vitality you're better of attacking and using Touch of Light later on.  The fact that the only truly useful healing spell (as in, for actual hit points) is a 0 level spell is something I consider a problem.  Plus using a 0 level spell a whole bunch is the opposite of heroic fantasy - the other guys are impaling people on their spears, shooting Qi blasts from their hands, and being total badasses in general.  As a magical healer, you poke your mates ever 6 seconds between fights - not badass.

---------

Got a little wordy there.  May have repeated myself a little.  Sorry.

On an different note: I'd like to see more distinctive options - Crafty did an excellent job of it, and I'm told Pathfinder did a reasonable one too.  The difference between "I hit it with my Axe" and "I hit it with my Sword" is vastly different for a trained user in FC, not so much in D&D.  Same goes for other non-weapon systems - I'd like to see Divine and Psionics that isn't just "Magic in a different hat" (again, Crafty did a great job with Paths, and I'd love to see their take on Psionics now that they're 2 editions more experienced).
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« Reply #113 on: February 14, 2012, 12:57:07 PM »

At higher levels (with Heal) it's not as big an issue.  At lower levels though you're always better off attacking, it's just the way the math shakes out - all the way up to heal (beyond it in FC, because the spell "Heal" doesn't actually heal any hit points - and healing wounds is orders of magnitude worse).

Even if you made Cure Wounds I cure all wound and vitality damage for the whole party wouldn't you still be better off attacking in all cases where someone isn't about to die/drop?  In all other cases the choice is between what the party can do without you while you heal and what the party can do with you.  In-combat healing is one of those things that is cool in a roleplaying sense but I don't see a way to keep it from being one of the worst mechanical things you can do with an action other than severely restricting the amount of vitality.  And if you treat it as an encounter resource like you mentioned earlier, that might not be bad at all.

After 6th level, if you're going to do healing, CW I is a great choice for Spell Secret.  10 vitality or 1 wound for 0 spell points.   

On 5E, I'd hate to see the D&D brand lost in the bowels of Hasbro but I think it's a much better thing for the hobby if they fail in their attempt to "unite the editions."  I suppose there's no actual possibility of that happening given the amount of cross edition hatred that seems to exist.  I hope they're able to retain the 4E base while bringing in new or dissatisfied gamers but the days of the industry being WOTC + bit players are gone forever.
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Mister Andersen
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« Reply #114 on: April 26, 2012, 05:52:08 AM »

Monte Cook has left his contract position with Wizards of the Coast, and is no longer working on Dungeons & Dragons due to creative differences.
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Mister Andersen
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« Reply #115 on: April 26, 2012, 06:19:58 AM »

Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook: Core Rulebook I, V. 3.5 with Errata
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« Reply #116 on: April 26, 2012, 08:57:17 AM »

Interesting that Monte left.  I hate hearing "creative difference" because I always want to know what those differences actually were.  Curse my curious nature...

I don't get the second link at all.
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Mister Andersen
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« Reply #117 on: April 26, 2012, 09:15:55 AM »

I know. It's almost like a belated knee jerk reaction to PathFinder
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foproy
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« Reply #118 on: April 26, 2012, 09:22:18 AM »

so wizards is re releasing the 3.5 books in September?
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Desertpuma
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« Reply #119 on: April 26, 2012, 11:51:09 AM »

Good for Monte ... sounds like WOTC is struggling again.
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Crusader Citadel

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