5E?

[Sletchman]

I definitely understand the struggle between the two, and with Crafty's limited resources I'd rather have fun unique stuff to do than covering every corner case. The thing is, WotC is a big enough company that they CAN cover every corner case, if they only take the time to do it right. With 3.5 they were heading in the right direction with the environment themed supplements like Sandstorm. That's the direction I'd like to see 5th Ed to go. Cover the corner cases. COVER EVERYTHING. They can pump out the books every month, why not actually cover stuff rather than just "Yet Another Monster Book IV".

That's a good point, and something I hadn't even considered, but you're right - Cityscape, Frostburn, Sandstorm, and Stormwrack (along with Tome of Battle) were some of the better books back in 3.5, IMO.  Though the endless monster books were great for my shapeshifter wizard - Monster Book VI: Polymorph Abuse Edition.

[ludomastro]

If they just want to kill stuff, invest in Cyberpunk 2020. Last one standing wins.

I don't mind a kick down the door type of game now and then.  Indeed, they can be fun.  However, I have no desire to play that way, all the time.  (I like spaghetti.  Doesn't mean I want to eat it every night for dinner.)  Sadly, DnD, as I have been exposed to it, rarely rises above that one constant repeated note.

I've never played Cyberpunk 2020 but may give it a shot.  Shadowrun is also good for a little Player v. GM steam venting.

[Desertpuma]

Shadowrun and Cyberpunk are roughly the same setting wise. Take Shadowrun, strip all of the fantasy elements out of it, and you'll get Cyberpunk.

Mechanically, Cyberpunk is faster and more streamlined than most RPGs out there. You can make a character in 10 minutes only to have them die in 1 minute. It is a brutal combat system and a very simple skill system. Use D10s for skill resolution and either D10s or D6s for damage and wound allocation.

[Sletchman]

It needs more rules for social things, really.  3.5 had Diplomacy and stuff, but there was never real support for social encounters (which I been told that 4E has basically no rules for).  Don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE fan of totally roleplaying social encounters, but in a lot of groups there will be players (not to mention the GM) with a socialite character who can talk rings around anyone and the player themself simply can't - for those times you need rules to back it up.

Examples: In the last game I ran one player had borderline personality cult levels of talking skill and simply wasn't up for roleplaying all the stuff his character could do - he just couldn't think about what a hyper intelligent pacifist with a magnet personality would actually say.  So I just asked him what tactics he'd use and how he'd come at them, and just let him roll against the appropriate skill.  Same game I had a player who I had to make roll because they could roleplay through any encounters and their character had IQ 6 (for non-gurps players that's basically the same as Intelligence 6 and Charisma 6, or worse).

[ComicJam]

It needs more rules for social things, really.  3.5 had Diplomacy and stuff, but there was never real support for social encounters (which I been told that 4E has basically no rules for).  Don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE fan of totally roleplaying social encounters, but in a lot of groups there will be players (not to mention the GM) with a socialite character who can talk rings around anyone and the player themself simply can't - for those times you need rules to back it up.

Examples: In the last game I ran one player had borderline personality cult levels of talking skill and simply wasn't up for roleplaying all the stuff his character could do - he just couldn't think about what a hyper intelligent pacifist with a magnet personality would actually say.  So I just asked him what tactics he'd use and how he'd come at them, and just let him roll against the appropriate skill.  Same game I had a player who I had to make roll because they could roleplay through any encounters and their character had IQ 6 (for non-gurps players that's basically the same as Intelligence 6 and Charisma 6, or worse).

Leading on from this, I hope that Bards and Illusionists become more RP and non-combat classes again...

Or I could play Fantasy Craft!

Cheers!

[TheAuldGrump]

Anyone else feel that 5e is kind of doomed, and will likely take the D&D brand with it?

I hated 4e so much. From the bungled roll out, to the advertisements that WotC was selling for $20 a pop, to the death of the OGL and that horrible, bastard thing that is the GSL, to the 'if you don't play it this way then you aren't having fun!' mentality. Hating the rules themselves is almost secondary. I realize that part of it is that Hasbro decided to marginalize any brand that makes less than 50 Million Dollars(!) but, Jeez Louise!

Makes me glad that the original crew created the OGL.

The Auld Grump

[Desertpuma]

Yeah, the original crew created it and then were fired so they went to Paizo to do Pathfinder.

[Mister Andersen]

I was committed to getting the 4th ed core trilogy, but the inability of my local GS to fulfil that order for whatever reason pretty much dead-ended my fiscal interest in the product. The few times I've played it, though, I haven't found it to be particularly unsatisfactory in and of itself. Of course, those times have all been free demos, which are pretty much nothing but combat.

[Krensky]

Yeah, the original crew created it and then were fired so they went to Paizo to do Pathfinder.

Technically one third is working for WotC again, one third is working for Paizo, and one third is much lower profile and I'm not sure what he's doing these days.

[Mister Andersen]

An interesting article -- part of a longer series -- about Ability-based martial classes.

[Valentina]

I was committed to getting the 4th ed core trilogy, but the inability of my local GS to fulfil that order for whatever reason pretty much dead-ended my fiscal interest in the product. The few times I've played it, though, I haven't found it to be particularly unsatisfactory in and of itself. Of course, those times have all been free demos, which are pretty much nothing but combat.

And really combat was what 4E prioritized getting right. You didn't miss anything, for better or worse, which was part of the problem I see others having. There was very little that was "D&D" in it.
Of course that also made it really, really fair as well for leaving so much legacy garbage in it's dust.

An interesting article -- part of a longer series -- about Ability-based martial classes.

Interesting. Not sure what to make of it, but it is interesting. 5E could be really balanced, which would be great. Also, I predict more "LOL WoW" comparisons from the grognards who're upset they won't be able to build their 6-class super-caster god-of-all again.

[MilitiaJim]

The article is a nice window into developer thought that gave me some tasty food for thought.

... Also, I predict more "LOL WoW" comparisons ...

That horse is beaten enough already.  The WoW-ness of 4e is probably the biggest reason I don't like it.

[Valentina]

The article is a nice window into developer thought that gave me some tasty food for thought.

... Also, I predict more "LOL WoW" comparisons ...

That horse is beaten enough already.  The WoW-ness of 4e is probably the biggest reason I don't like it.

Then I have bad news: that poor horse was one of a herd, and that comparison's not going away in hurry regardless of what you or I might wish.

[Sletchman]

The article is a nice window into developer thought that gave me some tasty food for thought.

The unfortunate thing is that since he is just "some guy" (that is to say, there's no indication of him being a writer in his profile) that any good ideas are about as likely to make it into 5E as any other random idea (good or otherwise).  It was an interesting read though - certainly nothing groundbreaking, but well laid out and presented.  His magic article is an interesting read too.

[Mister Andersen]

I must admit, I'm very much looking forward to comparing his ideas with Spellbound when it comes out.