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Author Topic: Active defense  (Read 1293 times)
Baijo Gosum
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« on: January 05, 2012, 03:44:44 PM »

I think I understand this but I want to make sure

So I'm in a tavern and three coinshots jump in and attack me.  I declare active defense as I dodge under a table. 

The 3 coinshots all fling a coin at me

Do I form a defense pool when I am targeted the first time and must save some of those dice for the other two attacks

or

do I get a pool for the first attack and can roll all of those dice because I will get a new pool of defense dice for each of the other two.

I was leaning twords the latter, but I wasn't sure with how the rules where stated.
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Skywalker
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2012, 03:51:03 PM »

It's the former. You roll dice only once. Once rolled, they are put aside. So you would need to form three seperate pools from your allocated Defence Dice pool, representing the difficulty of avoiding many attacks.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 04:01:23 PM by Skywalker » Logged
Baijo Gosum
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2012, 04:00:21 PM »

hmm ok, so what would be the benefit of active defense?  It would seem like declaring an attack would always give you the benefit of backing into an active defense.

The ability to chose which attribute you defend with could result in a larger pool, but it still seems kinda slim

thanks for the response!  I hope I'm not coming off as a pain about all of these questions.  I'm finally gonna get a chance to play on sat and I'm trying to head of a few issues if I can
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Skywalker
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2012, 04:02:54 PM »

No, your questions are all cool. The rules need tightening up and this kind of thing is exactly what Crafty want. I hope I don't come across as too authoritarian as I am just trying to work all this out myself Smiley
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Soulcatcher
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2012, 04:04:06 PM »

Backing into an active defense would result in a lower dice pool, just like any change of action.
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Skywalker
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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2012, 04:07:57 PM »

Yeah, you would need to declare Acive Defence up front like any other Action, so no advantage.
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Baijo Gosum
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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2012, 04:18:33 PM »

sorry I chose the wrong words.  I didn't mean changing my declared action into an active defense.

I declare my action and calculate my pool.  Any time I am attacked before it is my turn to act I can convert any number of my dice into defense dice, the rest I save for my declared action.  My turn in order changes based on my new number of action dice

When my turn comes I can forgo that action and turn all of my remaining dice into defense dice (I believe this is one of my options pg. 178)


What I guess I don't see is how declaring an active defense is more advantages than the above.  Especially in combat where (most of the time) a active defense would be based on the same attribute as an attack would.

You guys haven't come off as authoritative at all.  I have benefited alot from all the discussions, Thanks again!


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Skywalker
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« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2012, 04:23:19 PM »

That's right. The main benefit of Active Defence is having more control over how you are defending, which may increase your Defence Dice pool marginally.
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Baijo Gosum
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« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2012, 04:25:48 PM »

Ok, I see.  In a situation where declaring an attack would net me more dice then any active defense option it would be better to go with the attack knowing I can all ways use all of those action dice as defense dice if I feel like I need to
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Bill Whitmore
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« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2012, 04:59:16 PM »

There really isn't anything in the game I could find for an "Active Defense", it just doesn't exist.  There are actions and those dice can be converted into Defense Dice.

One thing to consider when you are being mobbed is that you can use nudges to add dice to future actions.  If you succeed on the first defense, you can use any nudges (with a reasonable description) to add dice to your next defense roll.
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Baijo Gosum
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« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2012, 05:10:51 PM »

this may not be what you meant, but there is an active defense on pg 175.

I think the distinction relates to the "actions that produce no dice" on the same page. 

I'm not sure the difference between the two actually.  Traits tools and circumstances apply with both and it seems to me that the same attributes would apply either way.

Unless you can make an argument that I can chose to actively defend with my wit or charm in a brawl I'm not sure the difference between the two.

I does say under "actions that produce no dice" that the traits tools and circumstance are defined by the persons reaction, so the trio might be less useful for people in that circumstance

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ZetaStriker
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« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2012, 12:14:24 PM »

The choice for total defense doesn't seem beneficial enough to me either. Although it is easier to score positive Circumstances when defending, it hardly balances the offensive traits most characters probably have. I may grant an extra die to Defense as a houserule, but I'll probably hold off until I've played with it a bit more.

Another option would be to remove all extra dice for traits, circumstances and tools if a character converts an action into full defense, so that it's less beneficial than going total defense.
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Skywalker
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« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2012, 01:53:43 PM »

Personally I wouldn't want to see a significnat benefit for Active Defence. The marginal one is fine. The default option should be to do stuff. This will encourage action which IMO supports the cinematic genre of the books.
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Crafty_Pat
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« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2012, 05:39:36 PM »

Personally I wouldn't want to see a significnat benefit for Active Defence. The marginal one is fine. The default option should be to do stuff. This will encourage action which IMO supports the cinematic genre of the books.

This was our thinking as well, which is why we didn't amp up the active defense option.

As to why there are two sections for Active Defense and Actions that Produce No Dice, it boils down to presenting information in ways that folks can readily grok. We could combine those sections on the grounds that they operate similarly, but doing so would lead to questions about the distinctions, so we left them separate sections so each would obviously be its own topic with no bleed-over. This also gives us handy headers to point to for each circumstance, rather than having to come up with a hyrbid title that covers both topics at the same time.
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ZetaStriker
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« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2012, 08:19:52 PM »

Ah, I guess that means Yielding or escaping are your big options when in danger then, eh? Not a bad concept, and I'll probably emphasize that before I try anything else.
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