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Author Topic: Shooting coins requires no skill?  (Read 1126 times)
Akerbos
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« on: January 05, 2012, 09:17:02 AM »

It just occurred to me that there seems to be some sort of asymmetry regarding combat with Allomancy.

On one hand, a Thug burning Pewter adds his Power dice to his Physique when he hits somebody. I think this makes a lot of sense: you increase the power of a regular hit, but you have to execute a proper punch first (with skill).

On the other hand, shooting coins at somebody is rolled solely against your Steel rating. Considering that Steel pushing offers no control over trajectories per se, this seems to be equivalent to "Can I push this specific object roughly in the right direction?". This is perfectly fine for Steelwalking of pushing away people. In combat, however, you need finer control. In order to do damage, you have to hit the right places with timing, maybe even read your opponent. This is not considered by the current rules.

Is there a particular reason why Shooting coins in combat is not done similarly to Pewter-reinforced melee attacks (e.g. balancing)? Otherwise, why not do Wits + Steel?

This would obviously make Coinshooting easier than it is now. Considering that you have to cut out defense dice from your action, Coinshots seem to be at a disadvantage compared to Thugs right now, though, so this would probably not harm.

What do you guys who have actually played the game think about that?

(Note that similar thoughts might apply to attacking with Iron; who said you could not slingshot coins?)
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Agent 333
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2012, 01:22:44 PM »

Keep in mind that your rating in a metal is your skill level with that metal in addition to your raw power and it makes more sense.
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Skywalker
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2012, 02:00:54 PM »

Steel/Iron is capable of Ranged Attacks, extra Mobility, and Multiple Target attacks. I find that these balance out with Pewter. I also find that Pewter being the best option in a straight up fight matches the source material. So it's fine as written IMO

In one game I played the Coinshot just pushed onto a rooftop and peppered the Thug, and we felt it was balanced. The player said that if Steel worked like Pewter, he would have swooped into close combat and destroyed the thug which we all agreed did not match the books.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 02:03:52 PM by Skywalker » Logged
Akerbos
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2012, 04:55:34 AM »

I see.

However, why would your player have gone to close combat? His attack is still a ranged one, wether you add Wits or not, and he is probably bad defending against heavy melee attacks.
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Skywalker
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2012, 05:09:40 AM »

However, why would your player have gone to close combat? His attack is still a ranged one, wether you add Wits or not, and he is probably bad defending against heavy melee attacks.

True. The benefit of Steel in close combat would be less than I suggested. I don't think that changes what I said otherwise.
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ReaderAt2046
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« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2012, 09:10:20 PM »


I agree with this. The Thug could probably survive the coinshot's fire for a while, but if nothing intervned the coinshot could easily unload a dozen volleys into the Thug. Sooner or later that's gotta hurt.
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Sireric08
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2012, 03:23:41 PM »

Also, when you are Pushing or Pulling with Steel or Iron, you don't aim because you can't.  The Push/Pull is centered on your physical center of mass.  That doesn't change, so the only thing that affects it is your Metal Rating.
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Dreamstreamer
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2012, 03:49:49 PM »

I look at it as trying to draw an imaginary line between my chest and my target. When the blue line connecting me to a coin aligns (as closely as possible) with my imaginary line, I give the coin a mental push to send it flying. It won't be exact, but it should get you close. Is that not aiming?

Also, can't you control your physical center of mass by adjusting your stance/footing?
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xyzzyllyzzyx
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2012, 08:53:54 PM »

You can control your center of balance with footing, but center of mass is (relatively) fixed.  You might affect it slightly by, say, tucking in your legs, but even that would be a slight change. 

Digression:  Would feruchemically tapping pewter change one's center of mass.  Which of course leads to the thought...does tapping pewter actually effect one's mass/weight at all, since iron specifically does that?  If so, then the two metals have some overlap, and if not, then you have a really light hulk...
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Dreamstreamer
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2012, 10:31:00 PM »

You can control your center of balance with footing, but center of mass is (relatively) fixed.  You might affect it slightly by, say, tucking in your legs, but even that would be a slight change.
 

Fair enough. But isn't the center of mass only fixed as a point within the body? If you duck, the point won't shift in relation to the body, but will in relation to the world around, no? So, I interpret aiming as positioning your body (and, therefore, your center of mass) in relation to the object to be pushed such that it forms a line to the target. The object being pushed is the point that the line is drawn through, much like a pivot. Just make sure that the other end of the line rests on your target and push! I guess I've played too much Zuma and Peggle, eh?

Digression:  Would feruchemically tapping pewter change one's center of mass.  Which of course leads to the thought...does tapping pewter actually effect one's mass/weight at all, since iron specifically does that?  If so, then the two metals have some overlap, and if not, then you have a really light hulk...

First, a nitpick for a nitpick: I believe you meant "affect one's mass" instead of "effect one's mass". While 'effect' can be used as a verb, it is typically used in a sentence as a noun, such as "special effect". When used as a verb, 'effect' means to bring about or make happen, such as to bring about change. The suggested word, 'affect', is typically used as a verb to mean 'influence' or 'modify', which I feel better describes what you were saying. You used it correctly in the first paragraph, so I should probably just chalk this instance up to typo, right? Wink

As to the message, as funny as a featherweight hulk would be, I would have to vote for the overlap position. The Feruchemist could store weight at the same time that they spend strength to get the featherweight hulk effect. I see strength as muscle and, with that, a measure of size. When storing, the Feruchemist is emaciated and weak, shrinking down in size. Muscle mass is decreased. Less muscle, to me, also means less mass/weight. By that same token, more muscle means more mass/weight.

For weight manipulation, I look at it as density control, to a point. As of yet, no character has become intangible from reducing weight, but viewing density control as the method for how weight is manipulated explains why the characters don't change size when storing or spending weight.

Then again, we can just chalk it up to magic, too!

P.S. I love palindromes! How is that pronounced? Sizzle Liz Icks?
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