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Author Topic: Bend Alloy/Cadmium  (Read 3680 times)
Aminar
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« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2012, 08:44:56 PM »

I also pointed out that social bit.  Smiley
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Dreamstreamer
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« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2012, 09:25:28 PM »

Ah, yes, there are out-of-combat applications, so it's not purely a hypothetical.  As written, though, the rule indicates that those taking social actions against those outside the bubble would also get the bonus, but that's ridiculous.
I also pointed out that social bit.  Smiley

I dunno. I can think of instances where it could contribute to a social conflict. To me, it's all in how the player describes their actions. I can see a player using Bendalloy to mask vandalism to a house lord's statue during a speech, embarrassing the lord in front of his constituents. Remember, social conflicts are all about making the other guy look bad. Bendalloy is just another tool in the belt. I think that this is one of the reasons why the rules use the word 'action'. As a narrative game, I like that it is a bit more lenient towards off-the-wall ideas. Aminar, I got the impression that you ran your games a little looser, so I would imagine that this would be right up your alley.

Edit:  I would rule that Sliders can move to superior positioning, and then take the time to aim, accruing two positive circumstances, thus gaining an extra die, before they drop the bubble.

Yeah, I was thinking along similar lines.

Thus, they still get some benefit to their attacks, and can put the bubble back up at the end of their turn, giving them extra Defense Dice.

I'm not sure how I feel about a character being able to erect the bubble at the end of their turn. See my previous post to Aminar.
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Aminar
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« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2012, 09:37:21 PM »

Except that those bonuses(in current wording) only count for actions taken while the bubbleis up.  Spun right that's great, but the wording leads to silly things too.

And I would love to see a 1 beat between bubbles in combat.
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Dreamstreamer
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« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2012, 10:16:34 PM »

Except that those bonuses(in current wording) only count for actions taken while the bubbleis up.  Spun right that's great, but the wording leads to silly things too.

All too true. Of course, that is why the narrator can also say no, eh?
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ReaderAt2046
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« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2012, 11:36:20 AM »

What I meant was that that rule would never even come into play if the bonus disappeared when you dropped the bubble.  Adding your bendalloy rating to an action taken against someone outside the bubble would be a complete hypothetical, thus making the rule entirely moot, in which case it should be deleted.  I get the feeling that wasn't their intention, though.

I'm not following this line of thought. I can see lots of examples where Bendalloy could come into play. Do you see Bendalloy as only useful in combat? Or that it should provide a bonus for offensive actions through the bubble? Is there a certain example from the source material where the heroes successfully attack from within a Bendalloy bubble?

(click to show/hide)

Not from within a bubble, but the way Wayne consistently defeats multiple enemies who not only outnumber him but have the luxury of shooting at range while he is constrained to fight in melee, seems to indicate that it's worth a little more than half of a Circumstance die.  But, I suppose we can just chalk that up to his relatively awesome Physique score, since he can rely on Bendalloy to give him free Defense Dice, his Gold Feruchemy allowing him to shrug off most injuries, and the fact that he only ever fights Extras, so they go down quickly.  Fair enough.



Remember, Wayne will jump somebody, erect the bubble with one enemy inside, and then fight that person in melee. Any other enemies have to shoot through the bubble, (a bunch of free DD's), and Wayne gets about 10 Beats in the bubble for every one outside it. Plus, he's really good with melee combat and very few others are in AoL. I think that's why he's so successful.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 11:08:53 AM by ReaderAt2046 » Logged
Aminar
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« Reply #50 on: February 16, 2012, 12:39:31 PM »

Except that those bonuses(in current wording) only count for actions taken while the bubbleis up.  Spun right that's great, but the wording leads to silly things too.

All too true. Of course, that is why the narrator can also say no, eh?

Yep, and its exactly what I would do, but the rule could use a bit of...  Less Silliness. 

I would guess Wayne gets(according to my chart) at rating 6 Bendalloy, 60 beats per Beat, but he can only manage 5 Minutes of time per charge.  That said, a given combat takes between 15 and 30 seconds, meaning 1 charge gets him between 10 and 20 fights.  All in all a good system, but far from the optimum way for just a slider to handle combat as any standard combat misting will eat him for breakfast.  The only thing that keeps Wayne up is healing.
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Stubbazubba
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« Reply #51 on: February 16, 2012, 01:10:14 PM »

What I meant was that that rule would never even come into play if the bonus disappeared when you dropped the bubble.  Adding your bendalloy rating to an action taken against someone outside the bubble would be a complete hypothetical, thus making the rule entirely moot, in which case it should be deleted.  I get the feeling that wasn't their intention, though.

I'm not following this line of thought. I can see lots of examples where Bendalloy could come into play. Do you see Bendalloy as only useful in combat? Or that it should provide a bonus for offensive actions through the bubble? Is there a certain example from the source material where the heroes successfully attack from within a Bendalloy bubble?

(click to show/hide)

Not from within a bubble, but the way Wayne consistently defeats multiple enemies who not only outnumber him but have the luxury of shooting at range while he is constrained to fight in melee, seems to indicate that it's worth a little more than half of a Circumstance die.  But, I suppose we can just chalk that up to his relatively awesome Physique score, since he can rely on Bendalloy to give him free Defense Dice, his Gold Feruchemy allowing him to shrug off most injuries, and the fact that he only ever fights Extras, so they go down quickly.  Fair enough.



Remember, Wayne will jump somebody, erect the bubble with one enemy inside, and then fight that person in melee. Any other enemies have to shoot through the bubble, (a bunch of free DD's), and Wayne gets about 10 Beats in the bubble for every one outside it. I think that's why he's so successful.

Oh, good point, I forgot about that tactic.  Speaking of which, I don't see that the rules actually let you resolve multiple beats of action inside a bubble before continuing on the action order, though that would be realistic.  I might try that and see if my players revolt.  If the opponent in your bubble was later in the action order, he is automatically moved up so that it makes sense.  All other actions are held off until the bubble is dropped, no matter how many Beats that is.  This gives Sliders a lot of control over who gets to play in Physical Conflicts, but defeating an Extra shouldn't take too long in the first place, and it will eat away at their Bendalloy reserves in a more measurable way.  With that, I might tweak it so that a Beat has to pass between bubbles, as well.

On a totally unrelated note, theoretically speaking, if there were two Sliders on the battlefield, and they both put up bubbles that were the same time differential, would they be able to see each other moving in real-time within their respective bubbles while everything around them is crawling?  That could give you some interesting moments reminiscent of Phantom Menace's red laser door scene.  It would, at the very least, nullify any benefit the person would normally gain over you for burning bendalloy.
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Aminar
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« Reply #52 on: February 16, 2012, 01:20:56 PM »

I would assume you as the GM declare the length of a beat, using a given number, thus more beats happen in a bubble.  It's still a useful metal, especially for a mistborn, but it isn't hard to stay away from someone or run out of the bubble either if you notice what's going on fast enough.
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ReaderAt2046
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« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2012, 11:07:13 AM »

Except that those bonuses(in current wording) only count for actions taken while the bubbleis up.  Spun right that's great, but the wording leads to silly things too.

All too true. Of course, that is why the narrator can also say no, eh?

Yep, and its exactly what I would do, but the rule could use a bit of...  Less Silliness. 

I would guess Wayne gets(according to my chart) at rating 6 Bendalloy, 60 beats per Beat, but he can only manage 5 Minutes of time per charge.  That said, a given combat takes between 15 and 30 seconds, meaning 1 charge gets him between 10 and 20 fights.  All in all a good system, but far from the optimum way for just a slider to handle combat as any standard combat misting will eat him for breakfast.  The only thing that keeps Wayne up is healing.

Wayne actually mentions in the final battle that he's never beaten a Thug without a lot of stored healing. But he's plenty good against ordinary folk, particularly with canes.
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